Discussion:
Etymology of "flop", "turn", and "river"
(too old to reply)
MVG
2005-02-07 04:28:34 UTC
Permalink
I've searched newgroups and website search engines to the max, and I
cannot find a reference to the etymology of the Texas Hold 'Em terms
"flop", "turn", and "river". Or for "Texas Hold 'Em" name itself.
Clearly the "flop" comes from the flopping over of the cards, but the
others are not obvious and probably amusing. Anyone know?
Bill97
2005-02-07 05:45:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by MVG
I've searched newgroups and website search engines to the max, and I
cannot find a reference to the etymology of the Texas Hold 'Em terms
"flop", "turn", and "river". Or for "Texas Hold 'Em" name itself.
Clearly the "flop" comes from the flopping over of the cards, but the
others are not obvious and probably amusing. Anyone know?
I would guess that the "turn" is from racetrack parlance, e.g. the announcer
calls "their coming around the far turn", meaning that the horses are
nearing the stretch and the race is almost over. I never read that
anywhere, but (as a racing fan) it always seemed obvious to me.

"Flop" makes sense, as far as the "river"--I'm dry.
brewmaster
2005-02-07 06:08:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill97
"their coming around the far turn"
THEY'RE coming around the far turn

----- 
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com
Bill97
2005-02-07 06:20:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by brewmaster
Post by Bill97
"their coming around the far turn"
THEY'RE coming around the far turn
Yes, thank you for correcting me on that! I apologize for offending your
sensibilities.
Stephen Jacobs
2005-02-07 07:01:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by MVG
I've searched newgroups and website search engines to the max, and I
cannot find a reference to the etymology of the Texas Hold 'Em terms
"flop", "turn", and "river". Or for "Texas Hold 'Em" name itself.
Clearly the "flop" comes from the flopping over of the cards, but the
others are not obvious and probably amusing. Anyone know?
'Texas hold'em' almost certainly comes from an earlier name 'hold me
darling.' It may have been 'Tennessee hold'em' first, maybe, but since it
was brought to really general public attention by Texans, the location is
natural.

'Flop' is natural. I'll agree on a horserace origin as likely tor 'turn.'
I'd guess 'river' was the final card in stud before it was the final card in
hold'em, and that the reference was to a particular river port US town with
4 or 6 numbered streets leading to the river (I've encountered a canal-side
town with numbers like that, but not in a plausible location).
veeRob
2005-02-07 08:49:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by MVG
I've searched newgroups and website search engines to the max, and I
cannot find a reference to the etymology of the Texas Hold 'Em terms
"flop", "turn", and "river". Or for "Texas Hold 'Em" name itself.
Clearly the "flop" comes from the flopping over of the cards, but the
others are not obvious and probably amusing. Anyone know?
Just copying & pasting from a post on twoplustwo.com, so take that at face
value...

To the best of my knowledge (which is minimal):

FLOP: Originally called "the flip" cause 3 cards are flipped up. During
the mid-70's, many players in the southwest started berating the dealer
when they got a bad "flip". They were fond of yelling at the dealer "WHAT
THE HELL IS THAT COW-FLOP??!?"

(note: this made reads difficult, as they would sometimes say that for
decptive reasons when they hit the flip hard)

TURN: Many people do not know that Texas Hold'em started as a drinking
game. One of the house rules was that if you wanted to bet on the 4th
board card, you had to first get out of your chair, stand up, and turn
around, then sit back down and make the bet. Thus, it became known as the
"get up and turn" street, later shortened to the "turn".

RIVER: Full-houses have long been known as "boats". Where do you get a
boat? Yup. On the river.
Also, in the days of yore, much hold'em was played on paddleboats on the
Mississpippi river, and because of gamblings seedy reputation at the time,
the "ladies of virtue" would not allow their men to play indoors (or with
a hat). Therefore, they set up their card tables on the outside decks of
the paddleboat. It got windy sometimes, and often the 5th street card
would be blown overboard, into the river. Ofter, players would catch a
glimpse of this card before it blew over, and if it helped them, they
would dive in after it, into the river. Thus, the "river-card" was born.

(Easy read, but again, some deceptive players would dive in when they
airballed the river card, then bet it up big as a bluff.)


Hope this helps.

----- 
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com
Gary
2005-02-07 14:11:48 UTC
Permalink
From some TV tournament I watched:

Flop = Flopping the cards down.
Turn = Where you luck turns (for better or worse)
River = River of dreams (cause that's the card you really NEEEDED)
Tom D
2005-02-07 14:54:32 UTC
Permalink
My understanding is that 7-card stud was called "Down the River" when it
was first introduced. The phrase: “down the river”, or “sold down the
river”, I believe, dates from the slave days when the worst fate for a
slave was to be sold down the river (Mississippi) to work in the cotton
fields in the deep south. Calling the seventh card the river card in stud
carried over to hold'em.

Tom D
Post by MVG
I've searched newgroups and website search engines to the max, and I
cannot find a reference to the etymology of the Texas Hold 'Em terms
"flop", "turn", and "river". Or for "Texas Hold 'Em" name itself.
Clearly the "flop" comes from the flopping over of the cards, but the
others are not obvious and probably amusing. Anyone know?
_______________________________________________________________
Posted using RecPoker.com v2.1 - http://www.recpoker.com
Sir Benjamin Nunn
2005-02-07 15:39:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by MVG
I've searched newgroups and website search engines to the max, and I
cannot find a reference to the etymology of the Texas Hold 'Em terms
"flop", "turn", and "river". Or for "Texas Hold 'Em" name itself.
Clearly the "flop" comes from the flopping over of the cards, but the
others are not obvious and probably amusing. Anyone know?
I'm glad you asked.

'Flop' is actually derived from Dr. Daniel Flopp, the German dental
physician and card-player of the late 19th century who terrorised the
one-card stud and Eight Men Down games in Europe at that time.

The secret of his success was to always carry three extra cards around with
him in his top pocket, normally Aces and Kings, which he would quickly
remove and place on the table whenever he was behind in a hand.

These extra cards gave Flopp a distinct advantage at a time when rules were
vague, but he was eventually told to either stop attempting to play them, or
to share them with all the players. He chose the latter option, and that's
where community cards came from.

The origins of the 'Turn' card are more obtuse, and actually date from just
three years ago. Until the 2002 WSOP, all Holdem and Omaha games were played
with four community cards, with the river following the flop while the
players ate crackers and drank wine.

In some of the larger casinos, the intermission between flop and river was
filled with some form of entertainment while the players ate and drank,
normally dancing girls or Siegfried and Roy. Obviously, with over a million
tables playing concurrently, it was impossible for the WSOP to provide
post-flop entertainment on every hand, so during the 2001 Main Event,
individual players would get up and 'do a turn'.

While it was entertaining to watch Gus Hanson's erotic dancing, Annie Duke's
Animal Magic and Chris Moneymaker singing songs, the 'turn' acts did little
to enhance the sport of poker, so for the following year, the WSOP decided
to scrap this, and introduce an extra 'turn card' instead.

The additional card proved very popular with players, and has stayed with us
ever since.

Finally we come to the 'River' card, which has been so called since ancient
Egyptian times when Cat-like Gods would deal cards from the heavens during
the solstices of the year.

This dramatic, primative form of poker was played by 18-foot-high Mummies,
who used the land of Egypt as their card-table, using giant pyramid-shaped
cards. Hands would take up to a year to complete at times, sometimes longer.

Sometimes these would fall mysteriously from the Stars. At other times they
would grow like leaves from trees. But the final card in any hand would
always be dealt by floating down the River Nile, normally counterfeiting my
two pair, and winning the hand for some lucky fucker with pocket jacks.

And now you know the truth.

BTN
RangeRider
2005-02-07 22:39:33 UTC
Permalink
Texas hold 'em was first introduced in the american colonies. The first
caucasian to play was Capt. John Smith who arrived to the new world in
chains and as a prisoner, later to become the leader of the Jamestown
colony through his prowess of the game originally know as Nwigi namasika
Abi spiwi nai which means I like to fish,Come sit with me.
The flop of the cards was a little harder to find in the algonquain
tribes language, but in seems to be agm8w8 Tagugo meaning they fall.
the turn was relatively meant as Skhipozit kisos Nakilhlt kisos,
meaning sunrise and sunset or the turn of a day.
the river was Nebi Minowis, pezois which is water cat or catfish
refering to the river.

Now you may ask after john smith's life was saved by the daughter of
the cheif what happened . they went to feast at one of the locally
owned casinos of the tribe which to this day has not been rediscovered.

And the name of the little indian princess that saved John Smiths
life....well, you guessed it...Pokerhontas


as always

RR

--
Read, Post, and Reply to RGP Posts at
http://LiveActionPoker.com

February Show Now On The Air At:
http://PokerUpdates.com

Continue reading on narkive:
Search results for 'Etymology of "flop", "turn", and "river"' (Questions and Answers)
28
replies
Do you believe in "GOD?"?
started 2009-06-10 15:38:49 UTC
religion & spirituality
Loading...