Post by otterPost by Will in New HavenPost by Will in New HavenPost by FangBangerPost by phlash74Post by FangBangerPost by Will in New HavenI know it isn't a grounds rule but a universal rule in MLB but I think
there are some things seriously wrong with the way these doubles are
handled.
If a runner from first goes on the pitch and is nearly at second when
the ball bounces, he is never allowed to score, even though he could
get home in a wheelchair. I think the Umpires ought to be allowed to
rule that he can score in this situation.
Also, why do they rubberize the warning track in so many Major League
parks. This leads to more of these automatic Doubles, which are not
very exciting, and to many fewer plays with an outfielder scrambling
to retrieve the ball and make a throw and a runner or runners
speeding, or trying to speed, around the bases, which is _very_
exciting.
--
Will in New Haven
not true.. there are some situations that the runner can be allowed to
score
Name one. Everything I've seen says all runners can only advance two bases
(anyone who was on 2nd or 3rd when the pitch was thrown automatically
score, while anyone on 1st is awarded 3rd base.)
Michael
-----------------
"> phlash
On your circle jerk k00l kidz email list. Should be disqualified for
that, but I'll give him a pass because he is smart." - ramashiva,
8/22/2010
"Hitler has already been forgiven, but you have not." - Reptillian AKA
Igotskillz, 4/6/2011
----
there is a porovision for umpires discretion .. almost never exercised
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/official_rules/batter_6.jsp-
"In which case the batter and the runners shall be entitled to advance
two bases"
has been interpreted as meaning that a runner who starts on first and
has run on the pitch, already reaching second, is entitled to two
bases _from second_ and not from first. I was told this when I took an
umpiring course (for high-school and other umpires in the state of
Alabama) and Doggy knows it also. At least several baseball announcers
over the years have mentioned this as well.
"has been interpreted"? Would you say that is the majority opinion, or
would you say that just
Post by ottersome individuals might feel that is the case?
Post by Will in New HavenIf that is the majority opinion, then perhaps you can point to where it
says that on some
Post by otterofficial looking rules page somewhere.
Post by Will in New HavenFor example
A ground rule double in either the actual or colloquial sense allows all
runners to advance
Post by otterexactly two bases from when the play began. A runner from first base is thus
required to stop at
Post by otterthird, even if he obviously could have scored had the ball not gone out of
play. This rigid awarding
Post by otterof bases distinguishes automatic doubles from fan interference, in which the
umpire is free to award
Post by otteras many bases to each player as he deems the player would have attained
without the interference.
Post by otterPost by Will in New HavenNote the part about "when the play began".
Or:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_rule_double
When two bases are awarded by either ground rule or league-wide rule,
any baserunners ahead of
Post by otterthe batter are entitled to advance two bases from their positions at the
time of pitch but may not
Post by otteradvance any further. This sometimes denies a team a run since a runner
starting from first base must
Post by otterstop at third base. It can also be an advantage as a runner on second base
automatically scores on a
Post by otterground rule double.
Post by Will in New HavenSome advantage. If you don't have a cripple on second, how is he NOT
going to score on a double.
Note the part "at the time of the pitch
All of that was written long after I learned the rules and none of it
is the official rules. The rules as written could be interpreted
either way.
Which is why they have umpire training classes, which I attended as well.
This point was covered,
Post by otterand it was clearly and emphatically stated that the award is ALWAYS from the
base the runner started
Post by otterfrom. Either you are misremembering what you were taught, or the umpire
giving your course was
Post by ottergrossly incompetent.
There are umpire decisions books that cover these things. This has not been
an issue for a long
Post by ottertime, if it ever was. The purpose of umpire training is to have a universal
understanding of the
Post by otterrules, which is sadly not always the case.
Post by Will in New HavenIf you watch baseball at all, you know that a runner on
first usually scores on a double.
That has nothing to do with what happens on a two-base award. Show me
anywhere in the rules or in
Post by otterthe decisions books where it says that the umpire has a choice about what
award to give to the
Post by otterrunner in this case.
Before Will answers this, I'd like to remind him that he's currently on
the same side of the issue as Doggy, and that in light of that, he might
want to reconsider his position. I'm just sayin'...
Michael
-----------------
"> phlash
On your circle jerk k00l kidz email list. Should be disqualified for
that, but I'll give him a pass because he is smart." - ramashiva,
8/22/2010
"Hitler has already been forgiven, but you have not." - Reptillian AKA
Igotskillz, 4/6/2011
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