OK the dealer forgot to burn a card before the flop.....NOW WHAT!

[fishbulb]

Had a tournament a couple of weeks ago and the dealer forgot to burn a
card before the flop.

The arguments started.....

The burn card (or what should have been) happened to be an ace.

Now the guy with an ace for one of his pocket cards was demanding that
the board stay as it was and play continue....

The guy a few seats down that was dealt pocket kings wanted the ace to
be burned and the next card flopped.....

We ended up deciding to muck the whole hand and start over....giving
the chips bacj was not a problem since it was just blinds and one bet
on the pocket cards.

We then decided that if it happened again that the card that should
have been burned would be and what would be the fourth card on the
deck would be turned over with the flop.


We basically decided to go this route for the reason that....let's say
this wasnt the flop and was the river......well by then many bets
would have been made and mucking the whole hand probably would not be
possible since giving people back their proper amount of chips would
be impossible to determine.

And we didnt think it was fair to the guy who had his better hand
screwed because the dealer screwed up.


So, can someone tell me what the proper thing here to do is?


What would they do in Vegas?....or any other casino?

And while we are on the subject of misdeals....what happens if
someones card is accidently flipped up or thrown off the table during
dealing?

Thanks,
Andy

[RegBarclay]

Hi Andy,

You made the right decission for your future games - as long as the mistake
can be corrected, it should be (assuming there has not yet been substantial
action in the applying betting round).

While we're at it: the proper procedure for another common home game
mistake, namely exposing the flop, turn, or river before everyone had a
chance to act in the previous round is the following:
Flop: reshuffle the deck (without the discards) and deal a new flop
Turn: discard the turn card, burn one and deal the river card as turn. For
the river you shuffle up the deck (including burn cards and the wrong turn
card but not the discards), burn one and deal the river
River: Shuffle up the deck (including burn cards and wrong river card but
not the discards), burn one and deal the river

These rules apply only as long as there has not yet been substantial action
in the betting round. For example: if there has been a bet, one caller and
a raise (three actions excluding checking) you should just stick with the
wrong card(s) - otherwise players might have an unfair advantage as they
just got too much information about their opponents hole cards.

Regarding your last question: If one card is accidentaly flipped up during
the deal (cards thrown off the table are automatically considered exposed),
leave it exposed and finish the deal. After everyone else has received
their cards, deal the next card to the player with the exposed card and use
this card as the burn card for the flop. That way the order of the cards is
not disturbed. The exposed card has to be replaced, the player may not
choose to play it anyway. More that one card exposed during the deal is a
misdeal. These rules apply only if the card is exposed by dealer mistake -
if a player accidentally flips over his cards, they are dead and can not be
replaced for the hand.

I hope these answers help you and your friends for your home game.

Regards,
RegBarclay

(for private replies remove NOSPAM from my email address)

Post by fishbulb
Had a tournament a couple of weeks ago and the dealer forgot to burn a
card before the flop.
The arguments started.....
The burn card (or what should have been) happened to be an ace.
Now the guy with an ace for one of his pocket cards was demanding that
the board stay as it was and play continue....
The guy a few seats down that was dealt pocket kings wanted the ace to
be burned and the next card flopped.....
We ended up deciding to muck the whole hand and start over....giving
the chips bacj was not a problem since it was just blinds and one bet
on the pocket cards.
We then decided that if it happened again that the card that should
have been burned would be and what would be the fourth card on the
deck would be turned over with the flop.
We basically decided to go this route for the reason that....let's say
this wasnt the flop and was the river......well by then many bets
would have been made and mucking the whole hand probably would not be
possible since giving people back their proper amount of chips would
be impossible to determine.
And we didnt think it was fair to the guy who had his better hand
screwed because the dealer screwed up.
So, can someone tell me what the proper thing here to do is?
What would they do in Vegas?....or any other casino?
And while we are on the subject of misdeals....what happens if
someones card is accidently flipped up or thrown off the table during
dealing?
Thanks,
Andy

[Scott Cadreau]

Keep in mind a burn card in a home game should not be necessary. The burn
card in a casino is used to help thwart marked cards. If you and your
friends are *having* to burn cards, you need new friends.


Scott

Post by fishbulb
Had a tournament a couple of weeks ago and the dealer forgot to burn a
card before the flop.
The arguments started.....
The burn card (or what should have been) happened to be an ace.
Now the guy with an ace for one of his pocket cards was demanding that
the board stay as it was and play continue....
The guy a few seats down that was dealt pocket kings wanted the ace to
be burned and the next card flopped.....
We ended up deciding to muck the whole hand and start over....giving
the chips bacj was not a problem since it was just blinds and one bet
on the pocket cards.
We then decided that if it happened again that the card that should
have been burned would be and what would be the fourth card on the
deck would be turned over with the flop.
We basically decided to go this route for the reason that....let's say
this wasnt the flop and was the river......well by then many bets
would have been made and mucking the whole hand probably would not be
possible since giving people back their proper amount of chips would
be impossible to determine.
And we didnt think it was fair to the guy who had his better hand
screwed because the dealer screwed up.
So, can someone tell me what the proper thing here to do is?
What would they do in Vegas?....or any other casino?
And while we are on the subject of misdeals....what happens if
someones card is accidently flipped up or thrown off the table during
dealing?
Thanks,
Andy

[J. Michael Hammond]

Post by Scott Cadreau
Keep in mind a burn card in a home game should not be necessary. The burn
card in a casino is used to help thwart marked cards. If you and your
friends are *having* to burn cards, you need new friends.

I used to think this too, but the burn card is useful for other
reasons in addition to reducing the effectiveness of marked cards.

First off, the extra mechanical effort required to burn the card
allows people that slight extra chance to interrupt the dealer if the
pot's not right.

Also, many single dealer errors are correctible with minimal effect on
the rest of the hand when you are in the habit of burning a card. For
example, if you expose a single card while dealing the initial hands,
you can continue to deal, replace the exposed card with what would be
the burn card, and drive on. Only one card has "changed" -- the rest
of the hands, the flop, etc. remain the same as they would have been
had there been no error. This is important to your more superstitious
opponents and reduces the chances of 'steering' a card into the flop.

And come to think of it, I've seen more marked cards in a home game
than in the card room. I mean unintentionally marked, of course.

--JMike