Discussion:
OT: Not even liberals should condone this
(too old to reply)
bigtizzle
2005-08-19 20:27:49 UTC
Permalink
I am the last person that would ever want to post anything OT, but this
is too much. Try not to throw up in your mouth. And if this has been
posted before, I don't care, because people need to see this.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/19/national/19ranch.html?8hpib

DOUGLAS, Ariz., Aug. 18 - Spent shells litter the ground at what is
left of the firing range, and camouflage outfits still hang in a
storeroom. Just a few months ago, this ranch was known as Camp
Thunderbird, the headquarters of a paramilitary group that promised to
use force to keep illegal immigrants from sneaking across the border
with Mexico.

Camp Thunderbird is two miles from the Mexican border.
Now, in a turnabout, the 70-acre property about two miles from the
border is being given to two immigrants whom the group caught trying to
enter the United States illegally.

The land transfer is being made to satisfy judgments in a lawsuit in
which the immigrants had said that Casey Nethercott, the owner of the
ranch and a former leader of the vigilante group Ranch Rescue, had
harmed them.

"Certainly it's poetic justice that these undocumented workers own this
land," said Morris S. Dees Jr., co-founder and chief trial counsel of
the Southern Poverty Law Center in Montgomery, Ala., which represented
the immigrants in their lawsuit.

Mr. Dees said the loss of the ranch would "send a pretty important
message to those who come to the border to use violence."

The surrender of the ranch comes as the governors of Arizona and New
Mexico have declared a state of emergency because of the influx of
illegal immigrants and related crime along the border.

Bill Dore, a Douglas resident briefly affiliated with Ranch Rescue who
is still active in the border-patrolling Minuteman Project, called the
land transfer "ridiculous."

"The illegals are coming over here," Mr. Dore said. "They are getting
the American property. Hell, I'd come over, too. Get some American
property, make some money from the gringos."

The immigrants getting the ranch, Edwin Alfredo Mancía Gonzáles and
Fátima del Socorro Leiva Medina, could not be reached for comment.
Kelley Bruner, a lawyer at the law center, said they did not want to
speak to the news media but were happy with the outcome.

Ms. Bruner said that Mr. Mancía and Ms. Leiva, who are from El
Salvador but are not related, would not live at the ranch and would
probably sell it. Mr. Nethercott bought the ranch in 2003 for $120,000.

Mr. Mancía, who lives in Los Angeles, and Ms. Leiva, who lives in the
Dallas area, have applied for visas that are available to immigrants
who are the victims of certain crimes and who cooperate with the
authorities, Ms. Bruner said. She said that until a decision was made
on their applications, they could stay and work in the United States on
a year-to-year basis.

Mr. Mancía and Ms. Leiva were caught on a ranch in Hebbronville, Tex.,
in March 2003 by Mr. Nethercott and other members of Ranch Rescue. The
two immigrants later accused Mr. Nethercott of threatening them and of
hitting Mr. Mancía with a pistol, charges that Mr. Nethercott denied.
The immigrants also said the group gave them cookies, water and a
blanket and let them go after an hour or so.

The Salvadorans testified against Mr. Nethercott when he was tried by
Texas prosecutors. The jury deadlocked on a charge of pistol-whipping
but convicted Mr. Nethercott, who had previously served time in
California for assault, of gun possession, which is illegal for a
felon. He is now serving a five-year sentence in a Texas prison.

Mr. Mancía and Ms. Leiva also filed a lawsuit against Mr. Nethercott;
Jack Foote, the founder of Ranch Rescue; and the owner of the
Hebbronville ranch, Joe Sutton. The immigrants said the ordeal, in
which they feared that they would be killed by the men they thought
were soldiers, had left them with post-traumatic stress.

Mr. Sutton settled for $100,000. Mr. Nethercott and Mr. Foote did not
defend themselves, so the judge issued default judgments of $850,000
against Mr. Nethercott and $500,000 against Mr. Foote.

Mr. Dees said Mr. Foote appeared to have no substantial assets, but Mr.
Nethercott had the ranch. Shortly after the judgment, Mr. Nethercott
gave the land to his sister, Robin Albitz, of Prescott, Ariz. The
Southern Poverty Law Center sued the siblings, saying the transfer was
fraudulent and was meant to avoid the judgment.

Ms. Albitz, a nursing assistant, signed over the land to the two
immigrants last week.

"It scared the hell out of her," Margaret Pauline Nethercott, the
mother of Mr. Nethercott and Ms. Albitz, said of the lawsuit. "She
didn't know she had done anything illegal. We didn't know they had a
judgment against my son."

This was not the first time the law center had taken property from a
group on behalf of a client. In 1987, the headquarters of a Ku Klux
Klan group in Alabama was given to the mother of a boy whose murder was
tied to Klansmen. Property has also been taken from the Aryan Nations
and the White Aryan Resistance, Mr. Dees said.

Joseph Jacobson, a lawyer in Austin who represented Mr. Nethercott in
the criminal case, said the award was "a vast sum of money for a very
small indignity." Mr. Jacobson said the two immigrants were trespassing
on Mr. Sutton's ranch and would have been deported had the criminal
charges not been filed against Mr. Nethercott.

He criticized the law center for trying to get $60,000 in bail money
transferred to the immigrants. While the center said the money was Mr.
Nethercott's, Mr. Jacobson said it was actually Ms. Nethercott's, who
mortgaged her home to post bail for her son.

Mr. Nethercott and Mr. Foote had a falling out in 2004, and Mr. Foote
left Camp Thunderbird, taking Ranch Rescue with him. Mr. Nethercott
then formed the Arizona Guard, also based on his ranch.

In April, Mr. Nethercott told an Arizona television station, "We're
going to come out here and close the border with machine guns." But by
the end of the month, he had started his prison sentence.

Now, only remnants of Camp Thunderbird remain on his ranch, a vast
expanse of hard red soil, mesquite and tumbleweed with a house and two
bunkhouses. One bunkhouse has a storeroom containing some camouflage
suits, sleeping bags, tarps, emergency rations, empty ammunition
crates, gun parts and a chemical warfare protection suit.

In one part of the ranch, dirt is piled up to form the backdrop of a
firing range. An old water tank, riddled with bullet holes, is on its
side. A platform was built as an observation post on the tower that
once held the water tank.

Charles Jones, who was hired as a ranch hand about a month before Mr.
Nethercott went to prison, put up fences and brought in cattle to
graze. He has continued to live on the property with some family
members.

But now the cattle are gone, and Mr. Jones has been told that he should
prepare to leave. "It makes me sick I did all this work," he said.

Ms. Nethercott said she was not sure whether her son knew that his
ranch was being turned over to the immigrants, but that he would be
crushed if he did.

"That's his whole life," she said of the ranch. "He'd be heartbroken if
he lost it in any way, but this is the worst way."
Bob
2005-08-19 20:33:38 UTC
Permalink
"Mr. Sutton settled for $100,000. Mr. Nethercott and Mr. Foote did not
defend themselves, so the judge issued default judgments of $850,000
against Mr. Nethercott and $500,000 against Mr. Foote."

Huh. So much for the "This case is so obvious I don't even need to
hire a lawyer!" defense.

- Bob
DP75089
2005-08-19 20:43:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by bigtizzle
The immigrants also said the group gave them cookies, water and a
blanket and let them go after an hour or so.
Yeah, but the cookies were NOT chocolate chip and the blankets were a
little scratchy. Those heartless bastards!!!!


- "So she says, "You wanna' be evil?" And I say, "Yeah, baby. Yeah!
'Cuz I'm the Midnight Bomber...what bombs at midnight!!!"

_____________________________________________________________________ 
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OhioState95
2005-08-19 20:53:01 UTC
Permalink
Reminds me of a conversation I had with a Denver police officer who came to
speak to at my homeowner's association meeting.  I keep two loaded handguns in
my house and asked the cop about Denver law pertaining to the use of a firearm
against a trespasser in my home.  His advice: make sure the intruder's body is
all the way across my home's threshold before I shoot him, and make sure he's
dead so that there's only one story to be told.

BTW, if you're in the burglary business pick someone else's home.
Post by bigtizzle
I am the last person that would ever want to post anything OT, but this
is too much. Try not to throw up in your mouth. And if this has been
posted before, I don't care, because people need to see this.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/19/national/19ranch.html?8hpib
DOUGLAS, Ariz., Aug. 18 - Spent shells litter the ground at what is
left of the firing range, and camouflage outfits still hang in a
storeroom. Just a few months ago, this ranch was known as Camp
Thunderbird, the headquarters of a paramilitary group that promised to
use force to keep illegal immigrants from sneaking across the border
with Mexico.
Camp Thunderbird is two miles from the Mexican border.
Now, in a turnabout, the 70-acre property about two miles from the
border is being given to two immigrants whom the group caught trying to
enter the United States illegally.
The land transfer is being made to satisfy judgments in a lawsuit in
which the immigrants had said that Casey Nethercott, the owner of the
ranch and a former leader of the vigilante group Ranch Rescue, had
harmed them.
"Certainly it's poetic justice that these undocumented workers own this
land," said Morris S. Dees Jr., co-founder and chief trial counsel of
the Southern Poverty Law Center in Montgomery, Ala., which represented
the immigrants in their lawsuit.
Mr. Dees said the loss of the ranch would "send a pretty important
message to those who come to the border to use violence."
The surrender of the ranch comes as the governors of Arizona and New
Mexico have declared a state of emergency because of the influx of
illegal immigrants and related crime along the border.
Bill Dore, a Douglas resident briefly affiliated with Ranch Rescue who
is still active in the border-patrolling Minuteman Project, called the
land transfer "ridiculous."
"The illegals are coming over here," Mr. Dore said. "They are getting
the American property. Hell, I'd come over, too. Get some American
property, make some money from the gringos."
The immigrants getting the ranch, Edwin Alfredo Manc=EDa Gonz=E1les and
F=E1tima del Socorro Leiva Medina, could not be reached for comment.
Kelley Bruner, a lawyer at the law center, said they did not want to
speak to the news media but were happy with the outcome.
Ms. Bruner said that Mr. Manc=EDa and Ms. Leiva, who are from El
Salvador but are not related, would not live at the ranch and would
probably sell it. Mr. Nethercott bought the ranch in 2003 for $120,000.
Mr. Manc=EDa, who lives in Los Angeles, and Ms. Leiva, who lives in the
Dallas area, have applied for visas that are available to immigrants
who are the victims of certain crimes and who cooperate with the
authorities, Ms. Bruner said. She said that until a decision was made
on their applications, they could stay and work in the United States on
a year-to-year basis.
Mr. Manc=EDa and Ms. Leiva were caught on a ranch in Hebbronville, Tex.,
in March 2003 by Mr. Nethercott and other members of Ranch Rescue. The
two immigrants later accused Mr. Nethercott of threatening them and of
hitting Mr. Manc=EDa with a pistol, charges that Mr. Nethercott denied.
The immigrants also said the group gave them cookies, water and a
blanket and let them go after an hour or so.
The Salvadorans testified against Mr. Nethercott when he was tried by
Texas prosecutors. The jury deadlocked on a charge of pistol-whipping
but convicted Mr. Nethercott, who had previously served time in
California for assault, of gun possession, which is illegal for a
felon. He is now serving a five-year sentence in a Texas prison.
Mr. Manc=EDa and Ms. Leiva also filed a lawsuit against Mr. Nethercott;
Jack Foote, the founder of Ranch Rescue; and the owner of the
Hebbronville ranch, Joe Sutton. The immigrants said the ordeal, in
which they feared that they would be killed by the men they thought
were soldiers, had left them with post-traumatic stress.
Mr. Sutton settled for $100,000. Mr. Nethercott and Mr. Foote did not
defend themselves, so the judge issued default judgments of $850,000
against Mr. Nethercott and $500,000 against Mr. Foote.
Mr. Dees said Mr. Foote appeared to have no substantial assets, but Mr.
Nethercott had the ranch. Shortly after the judgment, Mr. Nethercott
gave the land to his sister, Robin Albitz, of Prescott, Ariz. The
Southern Poverty Law Center sued the siblings, saying the transfer was
fraudulent and was meant to avoid the judgment.
Ms. Albitz, a nursing assistant, signed over the land to the two
immigrants last week.
"It scared the hell out of her," Margaret Pauline Nethercott, the
mother of Mr. Nethercott and Ms. Albitz, said of the lawsuit. "She
didn't know she had done anything illegal. We didn't know they had a
judgment against my son."
This was not the first time the law center had taken property from a
group on behalf of a client. In 1987, the headquarters of a Ku Klux
Klan group in Alabama was given to the mother of a boy whose murder was
tied to Klansmen. Property has also been taken from the Aryan Nations
and the White Aryan Resistance, Mr. Dees said.
Joseph Jacobson, a lawyer in Austin who represented Mr. Nethercott in
the criminal case, said the award was "a vast sum of money for a very
small indignity." Mr. Jacobson said the two immigrants were trespassing
on Mr. Sutton's ranch and would have been deported had the criminal
charges not been filed against Mr. Nethercott.
He criticized the law center for trying to get $60,000 in bail money
transferred to the immigrants. While the center said the money was Mr.
Nethercott's, Mr. Jacobson said it was actually Ms. Nethercott's, who
mortgaged her home to post bail for her son.
Mr. Nethercott and Mr. Foote had a falling out in 2004, and Mr. Foote
left Camp Thunderbird, taking Ranch Rescue with him. Mr. Nethercott
then formed the Arizona Guard, also based on his ranch.
In April, Mr. Nethercott told an Arizona television station, "We're
going to come out here and close the border with machine guns." But by
the end of the month, he had started his prison sentence.
Now, only remnants of Camp Thunderbird remain on his ranch, a vast
expanse of hard red soil, mesquite and tumbleweed with a house and two
bunkhouses. One bunkhouse has a storeroom containing some camouflage
suits, sleeping bags, tarps, emergency rations, empty ammunition
crates, gun parts and a chemical warfare protection suit.
In one part of the ranch, dirt is piled up to form the backdrop of a
firing range. An old water tank, riddled with bullet holes, is on its
side. A platform was built as an observation post on the tower that
once held the water tank.
Charles Jones, who was hired as a ranch hand about a month before Mr.
Nethercott went to prison, put up fences and brought in cattle to
graze. He has continued to live on the property with some family
members.
But now the cattle are gone, and Mr. Jones has been told that he should
prepare to leave. "It makes me sick I did all this work," he said.
Ms. Nethercott said she was not sure whether her son knew that his
ranch was being turned over to the immigrants, but that he would be
crushed if he did.
"That's his whole life," she said of the ranch. "He'd be heartbroken if
he lost it in any way, but this is the worst way."
_______________________________________________________________
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TD
2005-08-19 21:19:31 UTC
Permalink
i had an acquaintance that had his home broken into twice. the second time they
stole all electronics and a new pair of Nike's. his home was broken into a third
time, he shot and killed the guy. the burglar was wearing the Nike's.
dead men tell no stories.
TD
Post by OhioState95
Reminds me of a conversation I had with a Denver police officer who came to
speak to at my homeowner's association meeting.  I keep two loaded handguns in
my house and asked the cop about Denver law pertaining to the use of a firearm
against a trespasser in my home.  His advice: make sure the intruder's body is
all the way across my home's threshold before I shoot him, and make sure he's
dead so that there's only one story to be told.
BTW, if you're in the burglary business pick someone else's home.
Post by bigtizzle
I am the last person that would ever want to post anything OT, but this
is too much. Try not to throw up in your mouth. And if this has been
posted before, I don't care, because people need to see this.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/19/national/19ranch.html?8hpib
DOUGLAS, Ariz., Aug. 18 - Spent shells litter the ground at what is
left of the firing range, and camouflage outfits still hang in a
storeroom. Just a few months ago, this ranch was known as Camp
Thunderbird, the headquarters of a paramilitary group that promised to
use force to keep illegal immigrants from sneaking across the border
with Mexico.
Camp Thunderbird is two miles from the Mexican border.
Now, in a turnabout, the 70-acre property about two miles from the
border is being given to two immigrants whom the group caught trying to
enter the United States illegally.
The land transfer is being made to satisfy judgments in a lawsuit in
which the immigrants had said that Casey Nethercott, the owner of the
ranch and a former leader of the vigilante group Ranch Rescue, had
harmed them.
"Certainly it's poetic justice that these undocumented workers own this
land," said Morris S. Dees Jr., co-founder and chief trial counsel of
the Southern Poverty Law Center in Montgomery, Ala., which represented
the immigrants in their lawsuit.
Mr. Dees said the loss of the ranch would "send a pretty important
message to those who come to the border to use violence."
The surrender of the ranch comes as the governors of Arizona and New
Mexico have declared a state of emergency because of the influx of
illegal immigrants and related crime along the border.
Bill Dore, a Douglas resident briefly affiliated with Ranch Rescue who
is still active in the border-patrolling Minuteman Project, called the
land transfer "ridiculous."
"The illegals are coming over here," Mr. Dore said. "They are getting
the American property. Hell, I'd come over, too. Get some American
property, make some money from the gringos."
The immigrants getting the ranch, Edwin Alfredo Manc=EDa Gonz=E1les and
F=E1tima del Socorro Leiva Medina, could not be reached for comment.
Kelley Bruner, a lawyer at the law center, said they did not want to
speak to the news media but were happy with the outcome.
Ms. Bruner said that Mr. Manc=EDa and Ms. Leiva, who are from El
Salvador but are not related, would not live at the ranch and would
probably sell it. Mr. Nethercott bought the ranch in 2003 for $120,000.
Mr. Manc=EDa, who lives in Los Angeles, and Ms. Leiva, who lives in the
Dallas area, have applied for visas that are available to immigrants
who are the victims of certain crimes and who cooperate with the
authorities, Ms. Bruner said. She said that until a decision was made
on their applications, they could stay and work in the United States on
a year-to-year basis.
Mr. Manc=EDa and Ms. Leiva were caught on a ranch in Hebbronville, Tex.,
in March 2003 by Mr. Nethercott and other members of Ranch Rescue. The
two immigrants later accused Mr. Nethercott of threatening them and of
hitting Mr. Manc=EDa with a pistol, charges that Mr. Nethercott denied.
The immigrants also said the group gave them cookies, water and a
blanket and let them go after an hour or so.
The Salvadorans testified against Mr. Nethercott when he was tried by
Texas prosecutors. The jury deadlocked on a charge of pistol-whipping
but convicted Mr. Nethercott, who had previously served time in
California for assault, of gun possession, which is illegal for a
felon. He is now serving a five-year sentence in a Texas prison.
Mr. Manc=EDa and Ms. Leiva also filed a lawsuit against Mr. Nethercott;
Jack Foote, the founder of Ranch Rescue; and the owner of the
Hebbronville ranch, Joe Sutton. The immigrants said the ordeal, in
which they feared that they would be killed by the men they thought
were soldiers, had left them with post-traumatic stress.
Mr. Sutton settled for $100,000. Mr. Nethercott and Mr. Foote did not
defend themselves, so the judge issued default judgments of $850,000
against Mr. Nethercott and $500,000 against Mr. Foote.
Mr. Dees said Mr. Foote appeared to have no substantial assets, but Mr.
Nethercott had the ranch. Shortly after the judgment, Mr. Nethercott
gave the land to his sister, Robin Albitz, of Prescott, Ariz. The
Southern Poverty Law Center sued the siblings, saying the transfer was
fraudulent and was meant to avoid the judgment.
Ms. Albitz, a nursing assistant, signed over the land to the two
immigrants last week.
"It scared the hell out of her," Margaret Pauline Nethercott, the
mother of Mr. Nethercott and Ms. Albitz, said of the lawsuit. "She
didn't know she had done anything illegal. We didn't know they had a
judgment against my son."
This was not the first time the law center had taken property from a
group on behalf of a client. In 1987, the headquarters of a Ku Klux
Klan group in Alabama was given to the mother of a boy whose murder was
tied to Klansmen. Property has also been taken from the Aryan Nations
and the White Aryan Resistance, Mr. Dees said.
Joseph Jacobson, a lawyer in Austin who represented Mr. Nethercott in
the criminal case, said the award was "a vast sum of money for a very
small indignity." Mr. Jacobson said the two immigrants were trespassing
on Mr. Sutton's ranch and would have been deported had the criminal
charges not been filed against Mr. Nethercott.
He criticized the law center for trying to get $60,000 in bail money
transferred to the immigrants. While the center said the money was Mr.
Nethercott's, Mr. Jacobson said it was actually Ms. Nethercott's, who
mortgaged her home to post bail for her son.
Mr. Nethercott and Mr. Foote had a falling out in 2004, and Mr. Foote
left Camp Thunderbird, taking Ranch Rescue with him. Mr. Nethercott
then formed the Arizona Guard, also based on his ranch.
In April, Mr. Nethercott told an Arizona television station, "We're
going to come out here and close the border with machine guns." But by
the end of the month, he had started his prison sentence.
Now, only remnants of Camp Thunderbird remain on his ranch, a vast
expanse of hard red soil, mesquite and tumbleweed with a house and two
bunkhouses. One bunkhouse has a storeroom containing some camouflage
suits, sleeping bags, tarps, emergency rations, empty ammunition
crates, gun parts and a chemical warfare protection suit.
In one part of the ranch, dirt is piled up to form the backdrop of a
firing range. An old water tank, riddled with bullet holes, is on its
side. A platform was built as an observation post on the tower that
once held the water tank.
Charles Jones, who was hired as a ranch hand about a month before Mr.
Nethercott went to prison, put up fences and brought in cattle to
graze. He has continued to live on the property with some family
members.
But now the cattle are gone, and Mr. Jones has been told that he should
prepare to leave. "It makes me sick I did all this work," he said.
Ms. Nethercott said she was not sure whether her son knew that his
ranch was being turned over to the immigrants, but that he would be
crushed if he did.
"That's his whole life," she said of the ranch. "He'd be heartbroken if
he lost it in any way, but this is the worst way."
_______________________________________________________________
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bub
2005-08-19 21:37:47 UTC
Permalink
couple cop buddies of mine always say to shoot the guy if he's coming
at you in your house, then fire a shot into the ceiling."i fired a
warning shot". i mean, guy breaks into your house and comes at you,
you don't want to get sued by his family. they might end up owning
your house. hell the court would probably even make you replace the
carpet too.
Post by OhioState95
Reminds me of a conversation I had with a Denver police officer who came to
speak to at my homeowner's association meeting.  I keep two loaded handguns in
my house and asked the cop about Denver law pertaining to the use of a firearm
against a trespasser in my home.  His advice: make sure the intruder's body is
all the way across my home's threshold before I shoot him, and make sure he's
dead so that there's only one story to be told.
Broomcorns Uncle
2005-08-19 21:09:55 UTC
Permalink
Jesus, anything that shuts down these "Minuteman" A-holes from roving around the
Arizona border replaying the Battle of Khe San is a good thing.  Don't weep any
tears for Casey Nethercott.  He's previously been arrseted in Texas for pistol
whipping some Salvadoran guy he found along the border down there.  I guess the
part about turning them over to the Border Patrol and "letting justice take it
course" just got overlooked on that one.

My family lives in Cochise County, which has been Ground Zero for these
paramilitary whackjobs over the last couple of years.  Most of the locals just
see them as carpetbaggers looking for their 15 minutes of fame on the Bill
O'Reilly Show.  The county sheriff wants no part of them, and the Border Patrol
treats them warily too.  What exactly was Ranch Rescue rescuing us from -- low
priced fruits and vegetables?  I kinda doubt the Minutemen will put the same
effort into picking American crops as they do patrolling American borders.....so
enjoy that ten dollar can of peaches you'll be eating if they succeed in
shutting off the human flow into El Norte.

Too bad we just can't swap the immigrants for the Minutemen, straight across. 
The Mexicans have a much better work ethic than these pathetic crackers who must
be unemployed if they have their days free to play cowboys & Injuns along the
border.  Probably love to bitch about the "gubmint" all day long, but are the
first ones on the phone if their VA or SSI checks are late......
Post by bigtizzle
I am the last person that would ever want to post anything OT, but this
is too much. Try not to throw up in your mouth. And if this has been
posted before, I don't care, because people need to see this.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/19/national/19ranch.html?8hpib
DOUGLAS, Ariz., Aug. 18 - Spent shells litter the ground at what is
left of the firing range, and camouflage outfits still hang in a
storeroom. Just a few months ago, this ranch was known as Camp
Thunderbird, the headquarters of a paramilitary group that promised to
use force to keep illegal immigrants from sneaking across the border
with Mexico.
Camp Thunderbird is two miles from the Mexican border.
Now, in a turnabout, the 70-acre property about two miles from the
border is being given to two immigrants whom the group caught trying to
enter the United States illegally.
The land transfer is being made to satisfy judgments in a lawsuit in
which the immigrants had said that Casey Nethercott, the owner of the
ranch and a former leader of the vigilante group Ranch Rescue, had
harmed them.
"Certainly it's poetic justice that these undocumented workers own this
land," said Morris S. Dees Jr., co-founder and chief trial counsel of
the Southern Poverty Law Center in Montgomery, Ala., which represented
the immigrants in their lawsuit.
Mr. Dees said the loss of the ranch would "send a pretty important
message to those who come to the border to use violence."
The surrender of the ranch comes as the governors of Arizona and New
Mexico have declared a state of emergency because of the influx of
illegal immigrants and related crime along the border.
Bill Dore, a Douglas resident briefly affiliated with Ranch Rescue who
is still active in the border-patrolling Minuteman Project, called the
land transfer "ridiculous."
"The illegals are coming over here," Mr. Dore said. "They are getting
the American property. Hell, I'd come over, too. Get some American
property, make some money from the gringos."
The immigrants getting the ranch, Edwin Alfredo Manc=EDa Gonz=E1les and
F=E1tima del Socorro Leiva Medina, could not be reached for comment.
Kelley Bruner, a lawyer at the law center, said they did not want to
speak to the news media but were happy with the outcome.
Ms. Bruner said that Mr. Manc=EDa and Ms. Leiva, who are from El
Salvador but are not related, would not live at the ranch and would
probably sell it. Mr. Nethercott bought the ranch in 2003 for $120,000.
Mr. Manc=EDa, who lives in Los Angeles, and Ms. Leiva, who lives in the
Dallas area, have applied for visas that are available to immigrants
who are the victims of certain crimes and who cooperate with the
authorities, Ms. Bruner said. She said that until a decision was made
on their applications, they could stay and work in the United States on
a year-to-year basis.
Mr. Manc=EDa and Ms. Leiva were caught on a ranch in Hebbronville, Tex.,
in March 2003 by Mr. Nethercott and other members of Ranch Rescue. The
two immigrants later accused Mr. Nethercott of threatening them and of
hitting Mr. Manc=EDa with a pistol, charges that Mr. Nethercott denied.
The immigrants also said the group gave them cookies, water and a
blanket and let them go after an hour or so.
The Salvadorans testified against Mr. Nethercott when he was tried by
Texas prosecutors. The jury deadlocked on a charge of pistol-whipping
but convicted Mr. Nethercott, who had previously served time in
California for assault, of gun possession, which is illegal for a
felon. He is now serving a five-year sentence in a Texas prison.
Mr. Manc=EDa and Ms. Leiva also filed a lawsuit against Mr. Nethercott;
Jack Foote, the founder of Ranch Rescue; and the owner of the
Hebbronville ranch, Joe Sutton. The immigrants said the ordeal, in
which they feared that they would be killed by the men they thought
were soldiers, had left them with post-traumatic stress.
Mr. Sutton settled for $100,000. Mr. Nethercott and Mr. Foote did not
defend themselves, so the judge issued default judgments of $850,000
against Mr. Nethercott and $500,000 against Mr. Foote.
Mr. Dees said Mr. Foote appeared to have no substantial assets, but Mr.
Nethercott had the ranch. Shortly after the judgment, Mr. Nethercott
gave the land to his sister, Robin Albitz, of Prescott, Ariz. The
Southern Poverty Law Center sued the siblings, saying the transfer was
fraudulent and was meant to avoid the judgment.
Ms. Albitz, a nursing assistant, signed over the land to the two
immigrants last week.
"It scared the hell out of her," Margaret Pauline Nethercott, the
mother of Mr. Nethercott and Ms. Albitz, said of the lawsuit. "She
didn't know she had done anything illegal. We didn't know they had a
judgment against my son."
This was not the first time the law center had taken property from a
group on behalf of a client. In 1987, the headquarters of a Ku Klux
Klan group in Alabama was given to the mother of a boy whose murder was
tied to Klansmen. Property has also been taken from the Aryan Nations
and the White Aryan Resistance, Mr. Dees said.
Joseph Jacobson, a lawyer in Austin who represented Mr. Nethercott in
the criminal case, said the award was "a vast sum of money for a very
small indignity." Mr. Jacobson said the two immigrants were trespassing
on Mr. Sutton's ranch and would have been deported had the criminal
charges not been filed against Mr. Nethercott.
He criticized the law center for trying to get $60,000 in bail money
transferred to the immigrants. While the center said the money was Mr.
Nethercott's, Mr. Jacobson said it was actually Ms. Nethercott's, who
mortgaged her home to post bail for her son.
Mr. Nethercott and Mr. Foote had a falling out in 2004, and Mr. Foote
left Camp Thunderbird, taking Ranch Rescue with him. Mr. Nethercott
then formed the Arizona Guard, also based on his ranch.
In April, Mr. Nethercott told an Arizona television station, "We're
going to come out here and close the border with machine guns." But by
the end of the month, he had started his prison sentence.
Now, only remnants of Camp Thunderbird remain on his ranch, a vast
expanse of hard red soil, mesquite and tumbleweed with a house and two
bunkhouses. One bunkhouse has a storeroom containing some camouflage
suits, sleeping bags, tarps, emergency rations, empty ammunition
crates, gun parts and a chemical warfare protection suit.
In one part of the ranch, dirt is piled up to form the backdrop of a
firing range. An old water tank, riddled with bullet holes, is on its
side. A platform was built as an observation post on the tower that
once held the water tank.
Charles Jones, who was hired as a ranch hand about a month before Mr.
Nethercott went to prison, put up fences and brought in cattle to
graze. He has continued to live on the property with some family
members.
But now the cattle are gone, and Mr. Jones has been told that he should
prepare to leave. "It makes me sick I did all this work," he said.
Ms. Nethercott said she was not sure whether her son knew that his
ranch was being turned over to the immigrants, but that he would be
crushed if he did.
"That's his whole life," she said of the ranch. "He'd be heartbroken if
he lost it in any way, but this is the worst way."
_______________________________________________________________
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bigtizzle
2005-08-19 21:13:05 UTC
Permalink
Now try and type that whole thing in Spanish. Just for practice, ya
know . . .

-bigtizzle
Paul Gee
2005-08-19 21:44:01 UTC
Permalink
I work with Mexican people in the agriculture field all day long. It is
true, they are mostly wonderful people, with not only good work ethics but
better moral values than many Americans. But these are not the only people
coming over. Our (California's) prison system is FULL of illegals coming
from Mexico and Central America. And these are some rough people. There
are some extremely violent people in some Central American gangs furthering
their criminal activity here in the States and in our prisons.

I don't necessarily agree with your view of the "minutemen-types", but I
don't know any of the people involved in that so I won't decide one way or
the other. Either way, it is not their responsibility to protect our
borders. The government should do that. This administration is not only
not doing enough to protect our borders, they are seeking to erase our
borders.

Immigration is, however, approaching crisis level, and something needs to be
done. Perhaps we could bring our troops home from Iraq and put some on our
border. How can anyone take seriously that we are fighting a "war on
terror" in Iraq when we leave our border wide open?

-Paul G.

PS: For what it's worth, if I were Mexican, and I lived down there working
all day for $7 and trying to feed a family, I too would be trying to hop the
border and go north to seek opportunity. I'd jump the fence every chance I
got. You can't blame people for wanting to come here. But you can't let
every element come here over an open border, endlessly. It will ultimately
destroy this country.
Post by Broomcorns Uncle
Jesus, anything that shuts down these "Minuteman" A-holes from roving around the
Arizona border replaying the Battle of Khe San is a good thing. Don't weep
any
Post by Broomcorns Uncle
tears for Casey Nethercott. He's previously been arrseted in Texas for
pistol
Post by Broomcorns Uncle
whipping some Salvadoran guy he found along the border down there. I guess
the
Post by Broomcorns Uncle
part about turning them over to the Border Patrol and "letting justice take it
course" just got overlooked on that one.
My family lives in Cochise County, which has been Ground Zero for these
paramilitary whackjobs over the last couple of years. Most of the locals
just
Post by Broomcorns Uncle
see them as carpetbaggers looking for their 15 minutes of fame on the Bill
O'Reilly Show. The county sheriff wants no part of them, and the Border
Patrol
Post by Broomcorns Uncle
treats them warily too. What exactly was Ranch Rescue rescuing us from --
low
Post by Broomcorns Uncle
priced fruits and vegetables? I kinda doubt the Minutemen will put the
same
Post by Broomcorns Uncle
effort into picking American crops as they do patrolling American borders.....so
enjoy that ten dollar can of peaches you'll be eating if they succeed in
shutting off the human flow into El Norte.
Too bad we just can't swap the immigrants for the Minutemen, straight
across.
Post by Broomcorns Uncle
The Mexicans have a much better work ethic than these pathetic crackers who must
be unemployed if they have their days free to play cowboys & Injuns along the
border. Probably love to bitch about the "gubmint" all day long, but are
the
Post by Broomcorns Uncle
first ones on the phone if their VA or SSI checks are late......
Post by bigtizzle
I am the last person that would ever want to post anything OT, but this
is too much. Try not to throw up in your mouth. And if this has been
posted before, I don't care, because people need to see this.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/19/national/19ranch.html?8hpib
DOUGLAS, Ariz., Aug. 18 - Spent shells litter the ground at what is
left of the firing range, and camouflage outfits still hang in a
storeroom. Just a few months ago, this ranch was known as Camp
Thunderbird, the headquarters of a paramilitary group that promised to
use force to keep illegal immigrants from sneaking across the border
with Mexico.
Camp Thunderbird is two miles from the Mexican border.
Now, in a turnabout, the 70-acre property about two miles from the
border is being given to two immigrants whom the group caught trying to
enter the United States illegally.
The land transfer is being made to satisfy judgments in a lawsuit in
which the immigrants had said that Casey Nethercott, the owner of the
ranch and a former leader of the vigilante group Ranch Rescue, had
harmed them.
"Certainly it's poetic justice that these undocumented workers own this
land," said Morris S. Dees Jr., co-founder and chief trial counsel of
the Southern Poverty Law Center in Montgomery, Ala., which represented
the immigrants in their lawsuit.
Mr. Dees said the loss of the ranch would "send a pretty important
message to those who come to the border to use violence."
The surrender of the ranch comes as the governors of Arizona and New
Mexico have declared a state of emergency because of the influx of
illegal immigrants and related crime along the border.
Bill Dore, a Douglas resident briefly affiliated with Ranch Rescue who
is still active in the border-patrolling Minuteman Project, called the
land transfer "ridiculous."
"The illegals are coming over here," Mr. Dore said. "They are getting
the American property. Hell, I'd come over, too. Get some American
property, make some money from the gringos."
The immigrants getting the ranch, Edwin Alfredo Manc=EDa Gonz=E1les and
F=E1tima del Socorro Leiva Medina, could not be reached for comment.
Kelley Bruner, a lawyer at the law center, said they did not want to
speak to the news media but were happy with the outcome.
Ms. Bruner said that Mr. Manc=EDa and Ms. Leiva, who are from El
Salvador but are not related, would not live at the ranch and would
probably sell it. Mr. Nethercott bought the ranch in 2003 for $120,000.
Mr. Manc=EDa, who lives in Los Angeles, and Ms. Leiva, who lives in the
Dallas area, have applied for visas that are available to immigrants
who are the victims of certain crimes and who cooperate with the
authorities, Ms. Bruner said. She said that until a decision was made
on their applications, they could stay and work in the United States on
a year-to-year basis.
Mr. Manc=EDa and Ms. Leiva were caught on a ranch in Hebbronville, Tex.,
in March 2003 by Mr. Nethercott and other members of Ranch Rescue. The
two immigrants later accused Mr. Nethercott of threatening them and of
hitting Mr. Manc=EDa with a pistol, charges that Mr. Nethercott denied.
The immigrants also said the group gave them cookies, water and a
blanket and let them go after an hour or so.
The Salvadorans testified against Mr. Nethercott when he was tried by
Texas prosecutors. The jury deadlocked on a charge of pistol-whipping
but convicted Mr. Nethercott, who had previously served time in
California for assault, of gun possession, which is illegal for a
felon. He is now serving a five-year sentence in a Texas prison.
Mr. Manc=EDa and Ms. Leiva also filed a lawsuit against Mr. Nethercott;
Jack Foote, the founder of Ranch Rescue; and the owner of the
Hebbronville ranch, Joe Sutton. The immigrants said the ordeal, in
which they feared that they would be killed by the men they thought
were soldiers, had left them with post-traumatic stress.
Mr. Sutton settled for $100,000. Mr. Nethercott and Mr. Foote did not
defend themselves, so the judge issued default judgments of $850,000
against Mr. Nethercott and $500,000 against Mr. Foote.
Mr. Dees said Mr. Foote appeared to have no substantial assets, but Mr.
Nethercott had the ranch. Shortly after the judgment, Mr. Nethercott
gave the land to his sister, Robin Albitz, of Prescott, Ariz. The
Southern Poverty Law Center sued the siblings, saying the transfer was
fraudulent and was meant to avoid the judgment.
Ms. Albitz, a nursing assistant, signed over the land to the two
immigrants last week.
"It scared the hell out of her," Margaret Pauline Nethercott, the
mother of Mr. Nethercott and Ms. Albitz, said of the lawsuit. "She
didn't know she had done anything illegal. We didn't know they had a
judgment against my son."
This was not the first time the law center had taken property from a
group on behalf of a client. In 1987, the headquarters of a Ku Klux
Klan group in Alabama was given to the mother of a boy whose murder was
tied to Klansmen. Property has also been taken from the Aryan Nations
and the White Aryan Resistance, Mr. Dees said.
Joseph Jacobson, a lawyer in Austin who represented Mr. Nethercott in
the criminal case, said the award was "a vast sum of money for a very
small indignity." Mr. Jacobson said the two immigrants were trespassing
on Mr. Sutton's ranch and would have been deported had the criminal
charges not been filed against Mr. Nethercott.
He criticized the law center for trying to get $60,000 in bail money
transferred to the immigrants. While the center said the money was Mr.
Nethercott's, Mr. Jacobson said it was actually Ms. Nethercott's, who
mortgaged her home to post bail for her son.
Mr. Nethercott and Mr. Foote had a falling out in 2004, and Mr. Foote
left Camp Thunderbird, taking Ranch Rescue with him. Mr. Nethercott
then formed the Arizona Guard, also based on his ranch.
In April, Mr. Nethercott told an Arizona television station, "We're
going to come out here and close the border with machine guns." But by
the end of the month, he had started his prison sentence.
Now, only remnants of Camp Thunderbird remain on his ranch, a vast
expanse of hard red soil, mesquite and tumbleweed with a house and two
bunkhouses. One bunkhouse has a storeroom containing some camouflage
suits, sleeping bags, tarps, emergency rations, empty ammunition
crates, gun parts and a chemical warfare protection suit.
In one part of the ranch, dirt is piled up to form the backdrop of a
firing range. An old water tank, riddled with bullet holes, is on its
side. A platform was built as an observation post on the tower that
once held the water tank.
Charles Jones, who was hired as a ranch hand about a month before Mr.
Nethercott went to prison, put up fences and brought in cattle to
graze. He has continued to live on the property with some family
members.
But now the cattle are gone, and Mr. Jones has been told that he should
prepare to leave. "It makes me sick I did all this work," he said.
Ms. Nethercott said she was not sure whether her son knew that his
ranch was being turned over to the immigrants, but that he would be
crushed if he did.
"That's his whole life," she said of the ranch. "He'd be heartbroken if
he lost it in any way, but this is the worst way."
_______________________________________________________________
Block Lists, Favorites, and more - http://www.recpoker.com
DP75089
2005-08-19 21:59:42 UTC
Permalink
That was an intelligent, well thought-out response. What the hell's wrong
with you? ;-)
Post by Paul Gee
I work with Mexican people in the agriculture field all day long. It is
true, they are mostly wonderful people, with not only good work ethics but
better moral values than many Americans. But these are not the only people
coming over. Our (California's) prison system is FULL of illegals coming
from Mexico and Central America. And these are some rough people. There
are some extremely violent people in some Central American gangs furthering
their criminal activity here in the States and in our prisons.
I don't necessarily agree with your view of the "minutemen-types", but I
don't know any of the people involved in that so I won't decide one way or
the other. Either way, it is not their responsibility to protect our
borders. The government should do that. This administration is not only
not doing enough to protect our borders, they are seeking to erase our
borders.
Immigration is, however, approaching crisis level, and something needs to be
done. Perhaps we could bring our troops home from Iraq and put some on our
border. How can anyone take seriously that we are fighting a "war on
terror" in Iraq when we leave our border wide open?
-Paul G.
PS: For what it's worth, if I were Mexican, and I lived down there working
all day for $7 and trying to feed a family, I too would be trying to hop the
border and go north to seek opportunity. I'd jump the fence every chance I
got. You can't blame people for wanting to come here. But you can't let
every element come here over an open border, endlessly. It will ultimately
destroy this country.
- "So she says, "You wanna' be evil?" And I say, "Yeah, baby. Yeah!
'Cuz I'm the Midnight Bomber...what bombs at midnight!!!"

______________________________________________________________________ 
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com
Broomcorns Uncle
2005-08-19 22:22:52 UTC
Permalink
Excellent points all, Paul.

It would make matters much easier if we reinstituted some version of the bracero
treaties that we had with Mexico up until the 1960's.  There used to be a legal
mechanism for allowing Mexicans into the country to work for limited periods of
time in agriculture and other seasonal pursuits.  Vicente Fox would like to see
this renewed, but has gotten nowhere with the Jorge Arbusto Dos administration. 
Given that US unemployment is currently low, and no one in America appears to
want these jobs at the pay being offered, there is damn little to lose by
reestablishing such a program.  At a minimum, it would allow you identify the
folks who have a genuine desire to work, play by the rules and return home with
their money from the ones who pose a heightened criminal risk, or are
undesirable for some other reason.

Your other point is well-taken too.  The government has the responsibility for
addressing these issues.  NOTHING which the government does or fails to do gives
anybody the right to engage in paramilitary vigilante behavior along the border,
pistol whipping illegals and the like.

There is a reason that Morris Dees and the Southern Poverty Law Center -- which
has in the past trained it sights on the Klan, the Ayran Nations and other like
minded rifraff -- got involved in this case.  I have to think it has something
to do with the methodolgy and public face that the entire "Minuteman" movement
has presented.  Assisting the Border Patrol in enforcing current laws is a far
different puppy than complaining about how immigrants dilute America's racial
purity.  I have heard a number of statements from these so-called "patriots"
which represent downright bigoted and uneducated views.  To the extent that
Ranch Rescue and like groups foster a climate in which such BS is encouraged,
I'm glad to see them bankrupted by any means necesssary.

The US is gonna go into a permanent state of economic and social decline if it
scares off the hard-working, moral folks that you interact with daily from
immigranting to the country.  There are never enough of those type of people to
go around.
I work with Mexican people in the agriculture field all day long. It is
true, they are mostly wonderful people, with not only good work ethics but
better moral values than many Americans. But these are not the only people
coming over. Our (California's) prison system is FULL of illegals coming
from Mexico and Central America. And these are some rough people. There
are some extremely violent people in some Central American gangs furthering
their criminal activity here in the States and in our prisons.
I don't necessarily agree with your view of the "minutemen-types", but I
don't know any of the people involved in that so I won't decide one way or
the other. Either way, it is not their responsibility to protect our
borders. The government should do that. This administration is not only
not doing enough to protect our borders, they are seeking to erase our
borders.
Immigration is, however, approaching crisis level, and something needs to be
done. Perhaps we could bring our troops home from Iraq and put some on our
border. How can anyone take seriously that we are fighting a "war on
terror" in Iraq when we leave our border wide open?
-Paul G.
PS: For what it's worth, if I were Mexican, and I lived down there working
all day for $7 and trying to feed a family, I too would be trying to hop the
border and go north to seek opportunity. I'd jump the fence every chance I
got. You can't blame people for wanting to come here. But you can't let
every element come here over an open border, endlessly. It will ultimately
destroy this country.
Post by Broomcorns Uncle
Jesus, anything that shuts down these "Minuteman" A-holes from roving
around the
Post by Broomcorns Uncle
Arizona border replaying the Battle of Khe San is a good thing. Don't weep
any
Post by Broomcorns Uncle
tears for Casey Nethercott. He's previously been arrseted in Texas for
pistol
Post by Broomcorns Uncle
whipping some Salvadoran guy he found along the border down there. I guess
the
Post by Broomcorns Uncle
part about turning them over to the Border Patrol and "letting justice
take it
Post by Broomcorns Uncle
course" just got overlooked on that one.
My family lives in Cochise County, which has been Ground Zero for these
paramilitary whackjobs over the last couple of years. Most of the locals
just
Post by Broomcorns Uncle
see them as carpetbaggers looking for their 15 minutes of fame on the Bill
O'Reilly Show. The county sheriff wants no part of them, and the Border
Patrol
Post by Broomcorns Uncle
treats them warily too. What exactly was Ranch Rescue rescuing us from --
low
Post by Broomcorns Uncle
priced fruits and vegetables? I kinda doubt the Minutemen will put the
same
Post by Broomcorns Uncle
effort into picking American crops as they do patrolling American
borders.....so
Post by Broomcorns Uncle
enjoy that ten dollar can of peaches you'll be eating if they succeed in
shutting off the human flow into El Norte.
Too bad we just can't swap the immigrants for the Minutemen, straight
across.
Post by Broomcorns Uncle
The Mexicans have a much better work ethic than these pathetic crackers
who must
Post by Broomcorns Uncle
be unemployed if they have their days free to play cowboys & Injuns along
the
Post by Broomcorns Uncle
border. Probably love to bitch about the "gubmint" all day long, but are
the
Post by Broomcorns Uncle
first ones on the phone if their VA or SSI checks are late......
Post by bigtizzle
I am the last person that would ever want to post anything OT, but this
is too much. Try not to throw up in your mouth. And if this has been
posted before, I don't care, because people need to see this.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/19/national/19ranch.html?8hpib
DOUGLAS, Ariz., Aug. 18 - Spent shells litter the ground at what is
left of the firing range, and camouflage outfits still hang in a
storeroom. Just a few months ago, this ranch was known as Camp
Thunderbird, the headquarters of a paramilitary group that promised to
use force to keep illegal immigrants from sneaking across the border
with Mexico.
Camp Thunderbird is two miles from the Mexican border.
Now, in a turnabout, the 70-acre property about two miles from the
border is being given to two immigrants whom the group caught trying to
enter the United States illegally.
The land transfer is being made to satisfy judgments in a lawsuit in
which the immigrants had said that Casey Nethercott, the owner of the
ranch and a former leader of the vigilante group Ranch Rescue, had
harmed them.
"Certainly it's poetic justice that these undocumented workers own this
land," said Morris S. Dees Jr., co-founder and chief trial counsel of
the Southern Poverty Law Center in Montgomery, Ala., which represented
the immigrants in their lawsuit.
Mr. Dees said the loss of the ranch would "send a pretty important
message to those who come to the border to use violence."
The surrender of the ranch comes as the governors of Arizona and New
Mexico have declared a state of emergency because of the influx of
illegal immigrants and related crime along the border.
Bill Dore, a Douglas resident briefly affiliated with Ranch Rescue who
is still active in the border-patrolling Minuteman Project, called the
land transfer "ridiculous."
"The illegals are coming over here," Mr. Dore said. "They are getting
the American property. Hell, I'd come over, too. Get some American
property, make some money from the gringos."
The immigrants getting the ranch, Edwin Alfredo Manc=EDa Gonz=E1les and
F=E1tima del Socorro Leiva Medina, could not be reached for comment.
Kelley Bruner, a lawyer at the law center, said they did not want to
speak to the news media but were happy with the outcome.
Ms. Bruner said that Mr. Manc=EDa and Ms. Leiva, who are from El
Salvador but are not related, would not live at the ranch and would
probably sell it. Mr. Nethercott bought the ranch in 2003 for $120,000.
Mr. Manc=EDa, who lives in Los Angeles, and Ms. Leiva, who lives in the
Dallas area, have applied for visas that are available to immigrants
who are the victims of certain crimes and who cooperate with the
authorities, Ms. Bruner said. She said that until a decision was made
on their applications, they could stay and work in the United States on
a year-to-year basis.
Mr. Manc=EDa and Ms. Leiva were caught on a ranch in Hebbronville, Tex.,
in March 2003 by Mr. Nethercott and other members of Ranch Rescue. The
two immigrants later accused Mr. Nethercott of threatening them and of
hitting Mr. Manc=EDa with a pistol, charges that Mr. Nethercott denied.
The immigrants also said the group gave them cookies, water and a
blanket and let them go after an hour or so.
The Salvadorans testified against Mr. Nethercott when he was tried by
Texas prosecutors. The jury deadlocked on a charge of pistol-whipping
but convicted Mr. Nethercott, who had previously served time in
California for assault, of gun possession, which is illegal for a
felon. He is now serving a five-year sentence in a Texas prison.
Mr. Manc=EDa and Ms. Leiva also filed a lawsuit against Mr. Nethercott;
Jack Foote, the founder of Ranch Rescue; and the owner of the
Hebbronville ranch, Joe Sutton. The immigrants said the ordeal, in
which they feared that they would be killed by the men they thought
were soldiers, had left them with post-traumatic stress.
Mr. Sutton settled for $100,000. Mr. Nethercott and Mr. Foote did not
defend themselves, so the judge issued default judgments of $850,000
against Mr. Nethercott and $500,000 against Mr. Foote.
Mr. Dees said Mr. Foote appeared to have no substantial assets, but Mr.
Nethercott had the ranch. Shortly after the judgment, Mr. Nethercott
gave the land to his sister, Robin Albitz, of Prescott, Ariz. The
Southern Poverty Law Center sued the siblings, saying the transfer was
fraudulent and was meant to avoid the judgment.
Ms. Albitz, a nursing assistant, signed over the land to the two
immigrants last week.
"It scared the hell out of her," Margaret Pauline Nethercott, the
mother of Mr. Nethercott and Ms. Albitz, said of the lawsuit. "She
didn't know she had done anything illegal. We didn't know they had a
judgment against my son."
This was not the first time the law center had taken property from a
group on behalf of a client. In 1987, the headquarters of a Ku Klux
Klan group in Alabama was given to the mother of a boy whose murder was
tied to Klansmen. Property has also been taken from the Aryan Nations
and the White Aryan Resistance, Mr. Dees said.
Joseph Jacobson, a lawyer in Austin who represented Mr. Nethercott in
the criminal case, said the award was "a vast sum of money for a very
small indignity." Mr. Jacobson said the two immigrants were trespassing
on Mr. Sutton's ranch and would have been deported had the criminal
charges not been filed against Mr. Nethercott.
He criticized the law center for trying to get $60,000 in bail money
transferred to the immigrants. While the center said the money was Mr.
Nethercott's, Mr. Jacobson said it was actually Ms. Nethercott's, who
mortgaged her home to post bail for her son.
Mr. Nethercott and Mr. Foote had a falling out in 2004, and Mr. Foote
left Camp Thunderbird, taking Ranch Rescue with him. Mr. Nethercott
then formed the Arizona Guard, also based on his ranch.
In April, Mr. Nethercott told an Arizona television station, "We're
going to come out here and close the border with machine guns." But by
the end of the month, he had started his prison sentence.
Now, only remnants of Camp Thunderbird remain on his ranch, a vast
expanse of hard red soil, mesquite and tumbleweed with a house and two
bunkhouses. One bunkhouse has a storeroom containing some camouflage
suits, sleeping bags, tarps, emergency rations, empty ammunition
crates, gun parts and a chemical warfare protection suit.
In one part of the ranch, dirt is piled up to form the backdrop of a
firing range. An old water tank, riddled with bullet holes, is on its
side. A platform was built as an observation post on the tower that
once held the water tank.
Charles Jones, who was hired as a ranch hand about a month before Mr.
Nethercott went to prison, put up fences and brought in cattle to
graze. He has continued to live on the property with some family
members.
But now the cattle are gone, and Mr. Jones has been told that he should
prepare to leave. "It makes me sick I did all this work," he said.
Ms. Nethercott said she was not sure whether her son knew that his
ranch was being turned over to the immigrants, but that he would be
crushed if he did.
"That's his whole life," she said of the ranch. "He'd be heartbroken if
he lost it in any way, but this is the worst way."
_______________________________________________________________
Block Lists, Favorites, and more - /
_______________________________________________________________
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bigtizzle
2005-08-20 02:08:30 UTC
Permalink
I do concur that sometimes even the most noble of causes can be taken
way too far. It's our own brand of extremism, and as we've said time
and time again in any post about Palestinians, Iraqis, Israelis, etc.,
extremism, in any form, is usually the true problem.

-bigtizzle
Dorian
2005-08-19 22:37:23 UTC
Permalink
Press 1 for Spanish, Press 2 for English.

(1)
El fracaso para defender nuestra frontera meridional es muy peligroso. Permitir
a algunos mexicanos en este país para el trabajo pueden ser útiles para esta
economía de países. Permitiendo un interminable, descontroladamente flujo de
immirgants ilegal es peligroso. ¿Entonces, para sobrepasarlo lejos nosotros los
empezamos a dar libertan la tierra para entrar ilegalmente? Eso es simplemente
ridículo.

(2)
The failure to defend our southern border is very dangerous. Allowing some
mexicans into this country for labor can be helpful for this countries economy.
Allowing an unending, unchecked flow of illegal immirgants is dangerous. Then,
to top it off we start giving them free land for trespassing? That is simply
ridiculous.


_______________________________________________________________
Your Online Poker Community - http://www.recpoker.com
BillB
2005-08-20 03:03:38 UTC
Permalink
On the Mall
I do not believe in the fairness of lawsuits for monetary compensation,
unless
monetary harm was inflicted. If you are physically or emotionally harmed
by
someones actions then they should fact criminal charges. I do not believe
in a
monetary reward ...
How is that fair?
KilgoreTrout
2005-08-20 06:00:11 UTC
Permalink
On the Mall
I do not believe in the fairness of lawsuits for monetary compensation,
unless
monetary harm was inflicted. If you are physically or emotionally harmed by
someones actions then they should fact criminal charges.
What about the doctor bills?

I do not believe in a
monetary reward beyond the monetary cost of the incident. I think a fair
result
for the cop would of been for him to have to have spent a night in jail.
Unfortunately, that is not how our society works and I understand that.
So, because of my beliefs I would not have sued unless their was some serious
financial damages that I incured.
I am having trouble following your point. So if someone keys my car, you
feel like I am entitled to have them pay for my repair, correct? I also
think criminal charges may be in order... but if someone keys my *face*,
you think it should be strictly criminal? Am I not entitled to have the
damage fixed via plastic surgery at the expense of the offender (insert
mandatory plastic-surgery joke here)?

Or, if my daughter is beaten severely, and needs facial reconstruction, I
am entitled to have the offender pay for this, right? But if she is
beaten to death, is he/she (the attacker) responsible in any financial way
(perhaps for the funeral expenses)?

While I echo the sentiment of many in terms of curbing our out-of-control
sue-crazy society, I don't think your particular solution makes much sense.

--- 
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com
Paul Gee
2005-08-23 17:30:19 UTC
Permalink
This story ain't over. Learned a lot more about it since a few days ago.
And guess what, it sucks! Southern Poverty Law Center? I'm gonna puke.
Morris Dees should be wearing an orange jumpsuit.

The Kilo decision? Now this? Hello? We're losing this country.

-Paul G.



"bigtizzle" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message news:***@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
I am the last person that would ever want to post anything OT, but this
is too much. Try not to throw up in your mouth. And if this has been
posted before, I don't care, because people need to see this.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/19/national/19ranch.html?8hpib

DOUGLAS, Ariz., Aug. 18 - Spent shells litter the ground at what is
left of the firing range, and camouflage outfits still hang in a
storeroom. Just a few months ago, this ranch was known as Camp
Thunderbird, the headquarters of a paramilitary group that promised to
use force to keep illegal immigrants from sneaking across the border
with Mexico.

Camp Thunderbird is two miles from the Mexican border.
Now, in a turnabout, the 70-acre property about two miles from the
border is being given to two immigrants whom the group caught trying to
enter the United States illegally.

The land transfer is being made to satisfy judgments in a lawsuit in
which the immigrants had said that Casey Nethercott, the owner of the
ranch and a former leader of the vigilante group Ranch Rescue, had
harmed them.

"Certainly it's poetic justice that these undocumented workers own this
land," said Morris S. Dees Jr., co-founder and chief trial counsel of
the Southern Poverty Law Center in Montgomery, Ala., which represented
the immigrants in their lawsuit.

Mr. Dees said the loss of the ranch would "send a pretty important
message to those who come to the border to use violence."

The surrender of the ranch comes as the governors of Arizona and New
Mexico have declared a state of emergency because of the influx of
illegal immigrants and related crime along the border.

Bill Dore, a Douglas resident briefly affiliated with Ranch Rescue who
is still active in the border-patrolling Minuteman Project, called the
land transfer "ridiculous."

"The illegals are coming over here," Mr. Dore said. "They are getting
the American property. Hell, I'd come over, too. Get some American
property, make some money from the gringos."

The immigrants getting the ranch, Edwin Alfredo Mancía Gonzáles and
Fátima del Socorro Leiva Medina, could not be reached for comment.
Kelley Bruner, a lawyer at the law center, said they did not want to
speak to the news media but were happy with the outcome.

Ms. Bruner said that Mr. Mancía and Ms. Leiva, who are from El
Salvador but are not related, would not live at the ranch and would
probably sell it. Mr. Nethercott bought the ranch in 2003 for $120,000.

Mr. Mancía, who lives in Los Angeles, and Ms. Leiva, who lives in the
Dallas area, have applied for visas that are available to immigrants
who are the victims of certain crimes and who cooperate with the
authorities, Ms. Bruner said. She said that until a decision was made
on their applications, they could stay and work in the United States on
a year-to-year basis.

Mr. Mancía and Ms. Leiva were caught on a ranch in Hebbronville, Tex.,
in March 2003 by Mr. Nethercott and other members of Ranch Rescue. The
two immigrants later accused Mr. Nethercott of threatening them and of
hitting Mr. Mancía with a pistol, charges that Mr. Nethercott denied.
The immigrants also said the group gave them cookies, water and a
blanket and let them go after an hour or so.

The Salvadorans testified against Mr. Nethercott when he was tried by
Texas prosecutors. The jury deadlocked on a charge of pistol-whipping
but convicted Mr. Nethercott, who had previously served time in
California for assault, of gun possession, which is illegal for a
felon. He is now serving a five-year sentence in a Texas prison.

Mr. Mancía and Ms. Leiva also filed a lawsuit against Mr. Nethercott;
Jack Foote, the founder of Ranch Rescue; and the owner of the
Hebbronville ranch, Joe Sutton. The immigrants said the ordeal, in
which they feared that they would be killed by the men they thought
were soldiers, had left them with post-traumatic stress.

Mr. Sutton settled for $100,000. Mr. Nethercott and Mr. Foote did not
defend themselves, so the judge issued default judgments of $850,000
against Mr. Nethercott and $500,000 against Mr. Foote.

Mr. Dees said Mr. Foote appeared to have no substantial assets, but Mr.
Nethercott had the ranch. Shortly after the judgment, Mr. Nethercott
gave the land to his sister, Robin Albitz, of Prescott, Ariz. The
Southern Poverty Law Center sued the siblings, saying the transfer was
fraudulent and was meant to avoid the judgment.

Ms. Albitz, a nursing assistant, signed over the land to the two
immigrants last week.

"It scared the hell out of her," Margaret Pauline Nethercott, the
mother of Mr. Nethercott and Ms. Albitz, said of the lawsuit. "She
didn't know she had done anything illegal. We didn't know they had a
judgment against my son."

This was not the first time the law center had taken property from a
group on behalf of a client. In 1987, the headquarters of a Ku Klux
Klan group in Alabama was given to the mother of a boy whose murder was
tied to Klansmen. Property has also been taken from the Aryan Nations
and the White Aryan Resistance, Mr. Dees said.

Joseph Jacobson, a lawyer in Austin who represented Mr. Nethercott in
the criminal case, said the award was "a vast sum of money for a very
small indignity." Mr. Jacobson said the two immigrants were trespassing
on Mr. Sutton's ranch and would have been deported had the criminal
charges not been filed against Mr. Nethercott.

He criticized the law center for trying to get $60,000 in bail money
transferred to the immigrants. While the center said the money was Mr.
Nethercott's, Mr. Jacobson said it was actually Ms. Nethercott's, who
mortgaged her home to post bail for her son.

Mr. Nethercott and Mr. Foote had a falling out in 2004, and Mr. Foote
left Camp Thunderbird, taking Ranch Rescue with him. Mr. Nethercott
then formed the Arizona Guard, also based on his ranch.

In April, Mr. Nethercott told an Arizona television station, "We're
going to come out here and close the border with machine guns." But by
the end of the month, he had started his prison sentence.

Now, only remnants of Camp Thunderbird remain on his ranch, a vast
expanse of hard red soil, mesquite and tumbleweed with a house and two
bunkhouses. One bunkhouse has a storeroom containing some camouflage
suits, sleeping bags, tarps, emergency rations, empty ammunition
crates, gun parts and a chemical warfare protection suit.

In one part of the ranch, dirt is piled up to form the backdrop of a
firing range. An old water tank, riddled with bullet holes, is on its
side. A platform was built as an observation post on the tower that
once held the water tank.

Charles Jones, who was hired as a ranch hand about a month before Mr.
Nethercott went to prison, put up fences and brought in cattle to
graze. He has continued to live on the property with some family
members.

But now the cattle are gone, and Mr. Jones has been told that he should
prepare to leave. "It makes me sick I did all this work," he said.

Ms. Nethercott said she was not sure whether her son knew that his
ranch was being turned over to the immigrants, but that he would be
crushed if he did.

"That's his whole life," she said of the ranch. "He'd be heartbroken if
he lost it in any way, but this is the worst way."

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