Discussion:
OT: The real anwser to the Sopranos Finale
(too old to reply)
KookieMonstr
2007-06-15 15:47:49 UTC
Permalink
Damn, it took people a long time to see this... Fuckin told you....

http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/06/15/television.sopranos.reut/index.html

LOS ANGELES, California (Reuters) -- Fans of "The Sopranos" are seizing on clues
suggesting the controversial blackout which abruptly ended the TV mob drama
meant that Tony Soprano was rubbed out, and HBO said Thursday they may be on to
something.
One clue in particular, a flashback in the penultimate episode to a conversation
between Tony and his brother-in-law about death, gained credence as an HBO
spokesman called it a "legitimate" hint and confirmed that series creator David
Chase had a definite ending in mind.
"While he won't say to me 100 percent what it all means, he says some people
who've guessed have come closer than others," HBO spokesman Quentin Schaffer
told Reuters after speaking to Chase.
"There are definitely things there that he intended for people to pick up on,"
Schaffer said. (javascript:cnnVideo( javascript:cnnVideo()
Chase himself suggested as much in an interview Tuesday with The Star-Ledger
newspaper of New Jersey when he said of his end to the HBO series, "Anyone who
wants to watch it, it's all there."
In the final moments of Sunday's concluding episode, Tony, the conflicted mob
boss who has just survived a round of gangland warfare, sits in a diner with his
family munching on onion rings as the 1980s song by rock band Journey, "Don't
Stop Believin'," blares from a juke box.
Tension builds as a suspicious man wearing a "Members Only" jacket eyes Tony
from a nearby counter before slipping into a restroom. Then, as Tony looks
toward the restaurant's entrance, the screen abruptly goes blank in mid-scene --
with no picture or sound for 10 seconds -- until the credits roll silently.
Stunned viewers, many initially believing something had gone wrong with their
cable TV reception, were left wondering whether Tony ended up "whacked" or
whether his sordid life went on as usual.
Even star James Gandolfini wasn't sure.
"You have to ask ('The Sopranos' creator) David Chase that. Smarter minds than
mine know the answer to that," Gandolfini told the New York Daily News. "I
thought it was a great ending. You decide."
The jarring, fill-in-the-blank finale, concluding a show widely hailed as
America's greatest television drama, sparked a furious debate about whether
Chase had conceived of an actual ending and whether he left the audience any
clues.
The biggest hint, according to a consensus taking shape on the Web, is a scene
from an earlier episode in which Tony and his brother-in-law, Bobby "Bacala"
Baccalieri, muse about what it feels like to die.
"At the end, you probably don't hear anything, everything just goes black,"
Bobby says while they sit fishing in a small boat on a lake.
That scene is recalled briefly in a flashback played at the end of the
penultimate "Sopranos" episode, as Tony is lying in the darkened room of a
safehouse clutching a machine gun to his chest in the midst of a mob war.
"I think that is one of the most legitimate things to look at," Schaffer said
when asked about theories that the Bobby Bacala flashback was meant to
foreshadow Tony's death.
Moreover, he said the man in the "Members Only" jacket could be interpreted as a
symbolic reference to membership in the mob. "Members Only" also was the title
of the episode in which Tony's demented Uncle Junior shoots him in the gut.
The "Members Only" guy was played by the owner of a real-life pizza parlor,
Paolo Colandrea. Schaffer denied reports that Colandrea had appeared earlier in
the series as the nephew of Tony's New York gang rival, or that there ever was
such a character. He also dismissed reports that Chase had filmed more than one
ending to the finale.

_______________________________________________________________
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Beuksux
2007-06-15 16:50:13 UTC
Permalink
you know what, fuck that 'seizing clues' bullshit.

when tony was choking some snitch to death with a wire, we saw it.

when tony was on his back getting a blowjob, we saw it.

when tony pinched chris' nose and suffocated him, we saw that too.

for 86 episodes, the writers didn't drop clues and leave it to us to interpret
what was going on. the sopranos was a graphic show, where the creators gave us
visuals, and showed us exactly what they wanted us to see.

now all of a sudden, in the final moments we get an ending that is 'subject to
interpretation'

fuck that. we got jacked off.

there was no ending. they left it open so in 3 years when gandolfini and chase
are broke, they can cash in on that $50 million movie deal.
Post by KookieMonstr
Damn, it took people a long time to see this... Fuckin told you....
http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/06/15/television.sopranos.reut/index.html
LOS ANGELES, California (Reuters) -- Fans of "The Sopranos" are seizing on clues
suggesting the controversial blackout which abruptly ended the TV mob drama
meant that Tony Soprano was rubbed out, and HBO said Thursday they may be on to
something.
One clue in particular, a flashback in the penultimate episode to a conversation
between Tony and his brother-in-law about death, gained credence as an HBO
spokesman called it a "legitimate" hint and confirmed that series creator David
Chase had a definite ending in mind.
"While he won't say to me 100 percent what it all means, he says some people
who've guessed have come closer than others," HBO spokesman Quentin Schaffer
told Reuters after speaking to Chase.
"There are definitely things there that he intended for people to pick up on,"
Schaffer said. (javascript:cnnVideo( )
Chase himself suggested as much in an interview Tuesday with The Star-Ledger
newspaper of New Jersey when he said of his end to the HBO series, "Anyone who
wants to watch it, it's all there."
In the final moments of Sunday's concluding episode, Tony, the conflicted mob
boss who has just survived a round of gangland warfare, sits in a diner with his
family munching on onion rings as the 1980s song by rock band Journey, "Don't
Stop Believin'," blares from a juke box.
Tension builds as a suspicious man wearing a "Members Only" jacket eyes Tony
from a nearby counter before slipping into a restroom. Then, as Tony looks
toward the restaurant's entrance, the screen abruptly goes blank in mid-scene --
with no picture or sound for 10 seconds -- until the credits roll silently.
Stunned viewers, many initially believing something had gone wrong with their
cable TV reception, were left wondering whether Tony ended up "whacked" or
whether his sordid life went on as usual.
Even star James Gandolfini wasn't sure.
"You have to ask ('The Sopranos' creator) David Chase that. Smarter minds than
mine know the answer to that," Gandolfini told the New York Daily News. "I
thought it was a great ending. You decide."
The jarring, fill-in-the-blank finale, concluding a show widely hailed as
America's greatest television drama, sparked a furious debate about whether
Chase had conceived of an actual ending and whether he left the audience any
clues.
The biggest hint, according to a consensus taking shape on the Web, is a scene
from an earlier episode in which Tony and his brother-in-law, Bobby "Bacala"
Baccalieri, muse about what it feels like to die.
"At the end, you probably don't hear anything, everything just goes black,"
Bobby says while they sit fishing in a small boat on a lake.
That scene is recalled briefly in a flashback played at the end of the
penultimate "Sopranos" episode, as Tony is lying in the darkened room of a
safehouse clutching a machine gun to his chest in the midst of a mob war.
"I think that is one of the most legitimate things to look at," Schaffer said
when asked about theories that the Bobby Bacala flashback was meant to
foreshadow Tony's death.
Moreover, he said the man in the "Members Only" jacket could be interpreted as a
symbolic reference to membership in the mob. "Members Only" also was the title
of the episode in which Tony's demented Uncle Junior shoots him in the gut.
The "Members Only" guy was played by the owner of a real-life pizza parlor,
Paolo Colandrea. Schaffer denied reports that Colandrea had appeared earlier in
the series as the nephew of Tony's New York gang rival, or that there ever was
such a character. He also dismissed reports that Chase had filmed more than one
ending to the finale.
_______________________________________________________________
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R
2007-06-15 18:15:33 UTC
Permalink
You got it right. After 8 years of 'seizing clues' I stopped the moment I
realized it wasn't my cable going down.

BTW Chase has already said he isn't closed to the possibility of a movie.

It's sorta like voting for Bush the first time around, I can understand
that, but voting twice for the idiot, well I gotta believe you like getting
f***ed over.

It was good for 8 years, outlasted 2 of my marriages, and like those
marriages when it went bad it went really bad, holding on can only make it
worse.

It's over.
Post by Beuksux
you know what, fuck that 'seizing clues' bullshit.
when tony was choking some snitch to death with a wire, we saw it.
when tony was on his back getting a blowjob, we saw it.
when tony pinched chris' nose and suffocated him, we saw that too.
for 86 episodes, the writers didn't drop clues and leave it to us to interpret
what was going on. the sopranos was a graphic show, where the creators gave us
visuals, and showed us exactly what they wanted us to see.
now all of a sudden, in the final moments we get an ending that is 'subject to
interpretation'
fuck that. we got jacked off.
there was no ending. they left it open so in 3 years when gandolfini and chase
are broke, they can cash in on that $50 million movie deal.
Post by KookieMonstr
Damn, it took people a long time to see this... Fuckin told you....
http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/06/15/television.sopranos.reut/index.html
LOS ANGELES, California (Reuters) -- Fans of "The Sopranos" are seizing
on
clues
suggesting the controversial blackout which abruptly ended the TV mob drama
meant that Tony Soprano was rubbed out, and HBO said Thursday they may be
on
to
something.
One clue in particular, a flashback in the penultimate episode to a conversation
between Tony and his brother-in-law about death, gained credence as an HBO
spokesman called it a "legitimate" hint and confirmed that series creator David
Chase had a definite ending in mind.
"While he won't say to me 100 percent what it all means, he says some people
who've guessed have come closer than others," HBO spokesman Quentin Schaffer
told Reuters after speaking to Chase.
"There are definitely things there that he intended for people to pick up on,"
Schaffer said. (javascript:cnnVideo( )
Chase himself suggested as much in an interview Tuesday with The Star-Ledger
newspaper of New Jersey when he said of his end to the HBO series, "Anyone who
wants to watch it, it's all there."
In the final moments of Sunday's concluding episode, Tony, the conflicted mob
boss who has just survived a round of gangland warfare, sits in a diner
with
his
family munching on onion rings as the 1980s song by rock band Journey, "Don't
Stop Believin'," blares from a juke box.
Tension builds as a suspicious man wearing a "Members Only" jacket eyes Tony
from a nearby counter before slipping into a restroom. Then, as Tony looks
toward the restaurant's entrance, the screen abruptly goes blank in
mid-scene
--
with no picture or sound for 10 seconds -- until the credits roll silently.
Stunned viewers, many initially believing something had gone wrong with their
cable TV reception, were left wondering whether Tony ended up "whacked" or
whether his sordid life went on as usual.
Even star James Gandolfini wasn't sure.
"You have to ask ('The Sopranos' creator) David Chase that. Smarter minds than
mine know the answer to that," Gandolfini told the New York Daily News. "I
thought it was a great ending. You decide."
The jarring, fill-in-the-blank finale, concluding a show widely hailed as
America's greatest television drama, sparked a furious debate about whether
Chase had conceived of an actual ending and whether he left the audience any
clues.
The biggest hint, according to a consensus taking shape on the Web, is a scene
from an earlier episode in which Tony and his brother-in-law, Bobby "Bacala"
Baccalieri, muse about what it feels like to die.
"At the end, you probably don't hear anything, everything just goes black,"
Bobby says while they sit fishing in a small boat on a lake.
That scene is recalled briefly in a flashback played at the end of the
penultimate "Sopranos" episode, as Tony is lying in the darkened room of a
safehouse clutching a machine gun to his chest in the midst of a mob war.
"I think that is one of the most legitimate things to look at," Schaffer said
when asked about theories that the Bobby Bacala flashback was meant to
foreshadow Tony's death.
Moreover, he said the man in the "Members Only" jacket could be
interpreted as
a
symbolic reference to membership in the mob. "Members Only" also was the title
of the episode in which Tony's demented Uncle Junior shoots him in the gut.
The "Members Only" guy was played by the owner of a real-life pizza parlor,
Paolo Colandrea. Schaffer denied reports that Colandrea had appeared
earlier
in
the series as the nephew of Tony's New York gang rival, or that there ever was
such a character. He also dismissed reports that Chase had filmed more
than
one
ending to the finale.
_______________________________________________________________
Watch Lists, Block Lists, Favorites - http://www.recpoker.com
James L. Hankins
2007-06-15 18:24:24 UTC
Permalink
Beuksux is right---we got jacked off.

The pretentious art-house crowd can crow all they want about the brilliant
subtlety of ambiguity and smirk because they pretend to "get it" but when
the screen went black I'd bet they were with the rest of us screaming, "what
the fuck?!"
Post by R
You got it right. After 8 years of 'seizing clues' I stopped the moment I
realized it wasn't my cable going down.
BTW Chase has already said he isn't closed to the possibility of a movie.
It's sorta like voting for Bush the first time around, I can understand
that, but voting twice for the idiot, well I gotta believe you like
getting f***ed over.
It was good for 8 years, outlasted 2 of my marriages, and like those
marriages when it went bad it went really bad, holding on can only make it
worse.
It's over.
Post by Beuksux
you know what, fuck that 'seizing clues' bullshit.
when tony was choking some snitch to death with a wire, we saw it.
when tony was on his back getting a blowjob, we saw it.
when tony pinched chris' nose and suffocated him, we saw that too.
for 86 episodes, the writers didn't drop clues and leave it to us to interpret
what was going on. the sopranos was a graphic show, where the creators gave us
visuals, and showed us exactly what they wanted us to see.
now all of a sudden, in the final moments we get an ending that is 'subject to
interpretation'
fuck that. we got jacked off.
there was no ending. they left it open so in 3 years when gandolfini and chase
are broke, they can cash in on that $50 million movie deal.
Post by KookieMonstr
Damn, it took people a long time to see this... Fuckin told you....
http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/06/15/television.sopranos.reut/index.html
LOS ANGELES, California (Reuters) -- Fans of "The Sopranos" are seizing
on
clues
suggesting the controversial blackout which abruptly ended the TV mob drama
meant that Tony Soprano was rubbed out, and HBO said Thursday they may
be on
to
something.
One clue in particular, a flashback in the penultimate episode to a conversation
between Tony and his brother-in-law about death, gained credence as an HBO
spokesman called it a "legitimate" hint and confirmed that series
creator
David
Chase had a definite ending in mind.
"While he won't say to me 100 percent what it all means, he says some people
who've guessed have come closer than others," HBO spokesman Quentin Schaffer
told Reuters after speaking to Chase.
"There are definitely things there that he intended for people to pick up on,"
Schaffer said. (javascript:cnnVideo( )
Chase himself suggested as much in an interview Tuesday with The Star-Ledger
newspaper of New Jersey when he said of his end to the HBO series, "Anyone who
wants to watch it, it's all there."
In the final moments of Sunday's concluding episode, Tony, the conflicted mob
boss who has just survived a round of gangland warfare, sits in a diner
with
his
family munching on onion rings as the 1980s song by rock band Journey, "Don't
Stop Believin'," blares from a juke box.
Tension builds as a suspicious man wearing a "Members Only" jacket eyes Tony
from a nearby counter before slipping into a restroom. Then, as Tony looks
toward the restaurant's entrance, the screen abruptly goes blank in
mid-scene
--
with no picture or sound for 10 seconds -- until the credits roll silently.
Stunned viewers, many initially believing something had gone wrong with their
cable TV reception, were left wondering whether Tony ended up "whacked" or
whether his sordid life went on as usual.
Even star James Gandolfini wasn't sure.
"You have to ask ('The Sopranos' creator) David Chase that. Smarter minds than
mine know the answer to that," Gandolfini told the New York Daily News. "I
thought it was a great ending. You decide."
The jarring, fill-in-the-blank finale, concluding a show widely hailed as
America's greatest television drama, sparked a furious debate about whether
Chase had conceived of an actual ending and whether he left the audience any
clues.
The biggest hint, according to a consensus taking shape on the Web, is a scene
from an earlier episode in which Tony and his brother-in-law, Bobby "Bacala"
Baccalieri, muse about what it feels like to die.
"At the end, you probably don't hear anything, everything just goes black,"
Bobby says while they sit fishing in a small boat on a lake.
That scene is recalled briefly in a flashback played at the end of the
penultimate "Sopranos" episode, as Tony is lying in the darkened room of a
safehouse clutching a machine gun to his chest in the midst of a mob war.
"I think that is one of the most legitimate things to look at," Schaffer said
when asked about theories that the Bobby Bacala flashback was meant to
foreshadow Tony's death.
Moreover, he said the man in the "Members Only" jacket could be
interpreted as
a
symbolic reference to membership in the mob. "Members Only" also was the title
of the episode in which Tony's demented Uncle Junior shoots him in the gut.
The "Members Only" guy was played by the owner of a real-life pizza parlor,
Paolo Colandrea. Schaffer denied reports that Colandrea had appeared
earlier
in
the series as the nephew of Tony's New York gang rival, or that there ever was
such a character. He also dismissed reports that Chase had filmed more
than
one
ending to the finale.
_______________________________________________________________
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JerseyRudy
2007-06-15 18:51:41 UTC
Permalink
Yeah, that's right.  Power to the masses!  Power to the simpleminded!  Power to
the stupid!   The Sopranos finale sucked! David Chase sucks!  HBO sucks!  We
want to see the bullet go into Tony Sopranos brain!  We want to see a nuclear
warhead strike Holstens!  We want to see blood and body parts ! 

We are Americans damnit!  We hate ambiguity!  Give us what we are used to or
fuck you!

Now enough with this crap. Let's all go enjoy that box-office juggernaut
"Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer"...now that's a movie for the people!
Post by James L. Hankins
Beuksux is right---we got jacked off.
The pretentious art-house crowd can crow all they want about the brilliant
subtlety of ambiguity and smirk because they pretend to "get it" but when
the screen went black I'd bet they were with the rest of us screaming, "what
the fuck?!"
You got it right. After 8 years of 'seizing clues' I stopped the moment I
realized it wasn't my cable going down.
BTW Chase has already said he isn't closed to the possibility of a movie.
It's sorta like voting for Bush the first time around, I can understand
that, but voting twice for the idiot, well I gotta believe you like
getting f***ed over.
It was good for 8 years, outlasted 2 of my marriages, and like those
marriages when it went bad it went really bad, holding on can only make it
worse.
It's over.
Post by Beuksux
you know what, fuck that 'seizing clues' bullshit.
when tony was choking some snitch to death with a wire, we saw it.
when tony was on his back getting a blowjob, we saw it.
when tony pinched chris' nose and suffocated him, we saw that too.
for 86 episodes, the writers didn't drop clues and leave it to us to interpret
what was going on. the sopranos was a graphic show, where the creators gave us
visuals, and showed us exactly what they wanted us to see.
now all of a sudden, in the final moments we get an ending that is 'subject to
interpretation'
fuck that. we got jacked off.
there was no ending. they left it open so in 3 years when gandolfini and chase
are broke, they can cash in on that $50 million movie deal.
Post by KookieMonstr
Damn, it took people a long time to see this... Fuckin told you....
http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/06/15/television.sopranos
.reut/index.html
LOS ANGELES, California (Reuters) -- Fans of "The Sopranos" are seizing
on
clues
suggesting the controversial blackout which abruptly ended the TV mob drama
meant that Tony Soprano was rubbed out, and HBO said Thursday they may
be on
to
something.
One clue in particular, a flashback in the penultimate episode to a conversation
between Tony and his brother-in-law about death, gained credence as an HBO
spokesman called it a "legitimate" hint and confirmed that series
creator
David
Chase had a definite ending in mind.
"While he won't say to me 100 percent what it all means, he says some people
who've guessed have come closer than others," HBO spokesman Quentin Schaffer
told Reuters after speaking to Chase.
"There are definitely things there that he intended for people to pick up on,"
Schaffer said. (javascript:cnnVideo( )
Chase himself suggested as much in an interview Tuesday with The Star-Ledger
newspaper of New Jersey when he said of his end to the HBO series, "Anyone who
wants to watch it, it's all there."
In the final moments of Sunday's concluding episode, Tony, the conflicted mob
boss who has just survived a round of gangland warfare, sits in a diner
with
his
family munching on onion rings as the 1980s song by rock band Journey, "Don't
Stop Believin'," blares from a juke box.
Tension builds as a suspicious man wearing a "Members Only" jacket eyes Tony
from a nearby counter before slipping into a restroom. Then, as Tony looks
toward the restaurant's entrance, the screen abruptly goes blank in
mid-scene
--
with no picture or sound for 10 seconds -- until the credits roll silently.
Stunned viewers, many initially believing something had gone wrong with their
cable TV reception, were left wondering whether Tony ended up "whacked" or
whether his sordid life went on as usual.
Even star James Gandolfini wasn't sure.
"You have to ask ('The Sopranos' creator) David Chase that. Smarter minds than
mine know the answer to that," Gandolfini told the New York Daily News. "I
thought it was a great ending. You decide."
The jarring, fill-in-the-blank finale, concluding a show widely hailed as
America's greatest television drama, sparked a furious debate about whether
Chase had conceived of an actual ending and whether he left the audience any
clues.
The biggest hint, according to a consensus taking shape on the Web, is a scene
from an earlier episode in which Tony and his brother-in-law, Bobby "Bacala"
Baccalieri, muse about what it feels like to die.
"At the end, you probably don't hear anything, everything just goes black,"
Bobby says while they sit fishing in a small boat on a lake.
That scene is recalled briefly in a flashback played at the end of the
penultimate "Sopranos" episode, as Tony is lying in the darkened room of a
safehouse clutching a machine gun to his chest in the midst of a mob war.
"I think that is one of the most legitimate things to look at," Schaffer said
when asked about theories that the Bobby Bacala flashback was meant to
foreshadow Tony's death.
Moreover, he said the man in the "Members Only" jacket could be
interpreted as
a
symbolic reference to membership in the mob. "Members Only" also was the title
of the episode in which Tony's demented Uncle Junior shoots him in the gut.
The "Members Only" guy was played by the owner of a real-life pizza parlor,
Paolo Colandrea. Schaffer denied reports that Colandrea had appeared
earlier
in
the series as the nephew of Tony's New York gang rival, or that there ever was
such a character. He also dismissed reports that Chase had filmed more
than
one
ending to the finale.
_______________________________________________________________
Watch Lists, Block Lists, Favorites - /
_______________________________________________________________
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OrangeSFO
2007-06-15 19:49:34 UTC
Permalink
Yeah, that's right. Power to the masses! Power to the simpleminded! Power to
the stupid! The Sopranos finale sucked! David Chase sucks! HBO sucks! We
want to see the bullet go into Tony Sopranos brain! We want to see a nuclear
warhead strike Holstens! We want to see blood and body parts !
We are Americans damnit! We hate ambiguity! Give us what we are used to or
fuck you!
Amen!

Americans suffer from a disease called "Expectations."
You didn't get what you expected, America...? Well as Livia Soprano
would say:

"Poor you!"
James L. Hankins
2007-06-15 20:43:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by OrangeSFO
Yeah, that's right. Power to the masses! Power to the simpleminded!
Power to
the stupid! The Sopranos finale sucked! David Chase sucks! HBO sucks!
We
want to see the bullet go into Tony Sopranos brain! We want to see a nuclear
warhead strike Holstens! We want to see blood and body parts !
We are Americans damnit! We hate ambiguity! Give us what we are used to or
fuck you!
Amen!
Americans suffer from a disease called "Expectations."
You didn't get what you expected, America...? Well as Livia Soprano
"Poor you!"
Admit you thought the cable went out when that black screen came on, Orange.
You felt ripped off. Just admit it.

Then, you had to spend the next two hours convincing yourself that you
really didn't think it sucked and that it was brilliance you saw.
Gandolfini couldn't even bring himself to go to Chase's rescue. Other than
a few columnists who have to kiss Chase's ass, I'd say the consensus is that
the last episode sucked balls.
JerseyRudy
2007-06-15 20:55:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by James L. Hankins
Post by OrangeSFO
Yeah, that's right. Power to the masses! Power to the simpleminded!
Power to
the stupid! The Sopranos finale sucked! David Chase sucks! HBO sucks!
We
want to see the bullet go into Tony Sopranos brain! We want to see a
nuclear
warhead strike Holstens! We want to see blood and body parts !
We are Americans damnit! We hate ambiguity! Give us what we are used to
or
fuck you!
Amen!
Americans suffer from a disease called "Expectations."
You didn't get what you expected, America...? Well as Livia Soprano
"Poor you!"
Admit you thought the cable went out when that black screen came on, Orange.
You felt ripped off. Just admit it.
Then, you had to spend the next two hours convincing yourself that you
really didn't think it sucked and that it was brilliance you saw.
Gandolfini couldn't even bring himself to go to Chase's rescue. Other than
a few columnists who have to kiss Chase's ass, I'd say the consensus is that
the last episode sucked balls.
It's fine that you think the ending sucked, but get the facts straight:

/celebrities/profile/index.jsp?uuid=a0250ec4-1369-49dd-a20b-d54afce2d3fe and the
rest of his onscreen families are praising show mastermind David Chase for
leaving the audience guessing at the end of Sunday's swan song by having the
screen cut to black for 10 painful seconds.
"You have to ask David Chase about that. Smarter minds than mine know the answer
to that. I thought it was a great ending," the erstwhile Tony Soprano told the
New York Daily News of the truncated last scene, in which Tony waits for his
family to convene at a diner to the strains of "Don't Stop Believin'." The
suspense builds as all sorts of sketchy-looking people come through door and
Meadow struggles to parallel-park outside. Just as she's about to run in, the
picture cuts out. The ambiguous ending ticked off many fans who hoped for a more
traditional resolution.
But Gandolfini, who turned up with several castmates Thursday night for costar
Tony "Paulie Walnuts" Sirico's benefit for St. Jude Children's Research
Hospital, disagreed. "The ending was exactly what it should have been."


_______________________________________________________________
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James L. Hankins
2007-06-15 21:02:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by JerseyRudy
Post by James L. Hankins
Post by OrangeSFO
Yeah, that's right. Power to the masses! Power to the simpleminded!
Power to
the stupid! The Sopranos finale sucked! David Chase sucks! HBO sucks!
We
want to see the bullet go into Tony Sopranos brain! We want to see a
nuclear
warhead strike Holstens! We want to see blood and body parts !
We are Americans damnit! We hate ambiguity! Give us what we are used to
or
fuck you!
Amen!
Americans suffer from a disease called "Expectations."
You didn't get what you expected, America...? Well as Livia Soprano
"Poor you!"
Admit you thought the cable went out when that black screen came on, Orange.
You felt ripped off. Just admit it.
Then, you had to spend the next two hours convincing yourself that you
really didn't think it sucked and that it was brilliance you saw.
Gandolfini couldn't even bring himself to go to Chase's rescue. Other than
a few columnists who have to kiss Chase's ass, I'd say the consensus is that
the last episode sucked balls.
/celebrities/profile/index.jsp?uuid=a0250ec4-1369-49dd-a20b-d54afce2d3fe and the
rest of his onscreen families are praising show mastermind David Chase for
leaving the audience guessing at the end of Sunday's swan song by having the
screen cut to black for 10 painful seconds.
"You have to ask David Chase about that. Smarter minds than mine know the answer
to that. I thought it was a great ending," the erstwhile Tony Soprano told the
New York Daily News of the truncated last scene, in which Tony waits for his
family to convene at a diner to the strains of "Don't Stop Believin'." The
suspense builds as all sorts of sketchy-looking people come through door and
Meadow struggles to parallel-park outside. Just as she's about to run in, the
picture cuts out. The ambiguous ending ticked off many fans who hoped for a more
traditional resolution.
But Gandolfini, who turned up with several castmates Thursday night for costar
Tony "Paulie Walnuts" Sirico's benefit for St. Jude Children's Research
Hospital, disagreed. "The ending was exactly what it should have been."
I read this and it seemed luke-warm to me:

http://tv.msn.com/tv/article.aspx?news=265812&GT1=7703
Beuksux
2007-06-15 20:16:33 UTC
Permalink
i have no problem with ambiguity, symbolism, and cinema that drops clues that
are subject to interpretation.....

ie: Blue Velvet and a personal favorite of mine: 'Twin Peaks' which i've seen
probably 3 or 4 times.

but the Sopranos wasn't that kind of show. it has nothing to do with being
simple minded, it has to do with consistancy. the sopranos was consistantly
graphic. how many murders did we witness? how many times did we see tony on his
back getting his dick sucked or fucking someone other than his wife? how many
first hand beat downs did we witness?...nore of which were alluded to or
implied. it was a graphic show and fans of the show sought some sort of closure
which was denied us.

plus there were way too many loose ends which made the last episode suck even
more. the underlying theme throughout the show is a mobster who is seeking
insight into himself in a quest to elevate his state of consciousness.

it's why his therapy was such a huge part of the show, and was in fact the
'hook' that separated tony from all other 'on screen' mobsters. it was the
therapy, and his motives for going, that drove the show and gave the character
his appeal.

when he got shot and was in the hospital with the scientist who died of cancer,
if you recall, he was having a moment of clarity in his life and was intrigued
by the guy's philosophy. tony was digging deep here, as the scientist explained
how we're all not seperate, but collectively intertwined, and tony was grasping
here for insight beyond the routine of his 'mob' life.

it was addressed again when he went to vegas and tripped in the desert on peyote
with that hot girl. at the end of the episode, he raised his hands in jubilation
and shouted, 'i get it!'

then when he went back home and told the crew at the club, 'i saw the sun' he
was trying to share a moment of insight and depth of consciousness with his
cronies, then clammed up when he realized he may as well have been talking to a
wall.

then there's Melfi: torn between her relationship as tony's therapist and her
peers' assessment of the futility of treating criminals with therapy, all based
upon this study they were using as a reference. Chase gives insight into the
inner workings of tony's character throughout the series, and makes a clear
impression that tony is not a typical criminal, (despite his chosen lifestyle)
and possesses a true desire to discover himself and elevate his consciousness.

chase shows us that tony's mind functions on a higher level than those of his
mob cronies, which created a dilemma that displayed itself throughout the
series.

the reason why the end sucked is because this all important theme was neglected
at the series' end. he may as well have not had all those sessions of therapy,
never dropped peyote, and never sought to question his life on a deeper level,
because Chase chose to drop the whole theme with his shitty, dead end
conclusion.

after 86 episodes tony started out a certain person, and when the series
concluded, he was the same fucking person. so what was the point?

any work of literature or cinema has the need for the protagonist to go through
a series of chages, the plot leads the main character through some sort of
metamprphosis whether its evolution (ie: self discovery) or degeneration (ie: a
slow decent into madness).

but in the end the character of tony soprano did neither.
Post by JerseyRudy
Yeah, that's right.  Power to the masses!  Power to the simpleminded!  Power to
the stupid!   The Sopranos finale sucked! David Chase sucks!  HBO sucks!  We
want to see the bullet go into Tony Sopranos brain!  We want to see a nuclear
warhead strike Holstens!  We want to see blood and body parts ! 
We are Americans damnit!  We hate ambiguity!  Give us what we are used to or
fuck you!
Now enough with this crap. Let's all go enjoy that box-office juggernaut
"Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer"...now that's a movie for the people!
Post by James L. Hankins
Beuksux is right---we got jacked off.
The pretentious art-house crowd can crow all they want about the brilliant
subtlety of ambiguity and smirk because they pretend to "get it" but when
the screen went black I'd bet they were with the rest of us screaming, "what
the fuck?!"
You got it right. After 8 years of 'seizing clues' I stopped the moment I
realized it wasn't my cable going down.
BTW Chase has already said he isn't closed to the possibility of a movie.
It's sorta like voting for Bush the first time around, I can understand
that, but voting twice for the idiot, well I gotta believe you like
getting f***ed over.
It was good for 8 years, outlasted 2 of my marriages, and like those
marriages when it went bad it went really bad, holding on can only make it
worse.
It's over.
Post by Beuksux
you know what, fuck that 'seizing clues' bullshit.
when tony was choking some snitch to death with a wire, we saw it.
when tony was on his back getting a blowjob, we saw it.
when tony pinched chris' nose and suffocated him, we saw that too.
for 86 episodes, the writers didn't drop clues and leave it to us to interpret
what was going on. the sopranos was a graphic show, where the creators gave us
visuals, and showed us exactly what they wanted us to see.
now all of a sudden, in the final moments we get an ending that is 'subject to
interpretation'
fuck that. we got jacked off.
there was no ending. they left it open so in 3 years when gandolfini and chase
are broke, they can cash in on that $50 million movie deal.
Post by KookieMonstr
Damn, it took people a long time to see this... Fuckin told you....
http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/06/15/television.sopranos
.reut/index.html
LOS ANGELES, California (Reuters) -- Fans of "The Sopranos" are seizing
on
clues
suggesting the controversial blackout which abruptly ended the TV mob drama
meant that Tony Soprano was rubbed out, and HBO said Thursday they may
be on
to
something.
One clue in particular, a flashback in the penultimate episode to a
conversation
between Tony and his brother-in-law about death, gained credence as an HBO
spokesman called it a "legitimate" hint and confirmed that series
creator
David
Chase had a definite ending in mind.
"While he won't say to me 100 percent what it all means, he says some people
who've guessed have come closer than others," HBO spokesman Quentin Schaffer
told Reuters after speaking to Chase.
"There are definitely things there that he intended for people to pick up on,"
Schaffer said. (javascript:cnnVideo( )
Chase himself suggested as much in an interview Tuesday with The Star-Ledger
newspaper of New Jersey when he said of his end to the HBO series, "Anyone who
wants to watch it, it's all there."
In the final moments of Sunday's concluding episode, Tony, the conflicted mob
boss who has just survived a round of gangland warfare, sits in a diner
with
his
family munching on onion rings as the 1980s song by rock band Journey, "Don't
Stop Believin'," blares from a juke box.
Tension builds as a suspicious man wearing a "Members Only" jacket eyes Tony
from a nearby counter before slipping into a restroom. Then, as Tony looks
toward the restaurant's entrance, the screen abruptly goes blank in
mid-scene
--
with no picture or sound for 10 seconds -- until the credits roll silently.
Stunned viewers, many initially believing something had gone wrong with their
cable TV reception, were left wondering whether Tony ended up "whacked" or
whether his sordid life went on as usual.
Even star James Gandolfini wasn't sure.
"You have to ask ('The Sopranos' creator) David Chase that. Smarter minds than
mine know the answer to that," Gandolfini told the New York Daily News. "I
thought it was a great ending. You decide."
The jarring, fill-in-the-blank finale, concluding a show widely hailed as
America's greatest television drama, sparked a furious debate about whether
Chase had conceived of an actual ending and whether he left the audience
any
clues.
The biggest hint, according to a consensus taking shape on the Web, is a
scene
from an earlier episode in which Tony and his brother-in-law, Bobby "Bacala"
Baccalieri, muse about what it feels like to die.
"At the end, you probably don't hear anything, everything just goes black,"
Bobby says while they sit fishing in a small boat on a lake.
That scene is recalled briefly in a flashback played at the end of the
penultimate "Sopranos" episode, as Tony is lying in the darkened room of
a
safehouse clutching a machine gun to his chest in the midst of a mob war.
"I think that is one of the most legitimate things to look at," Schaffer
said
when asked about theories that the Bobby Bacala flashback was meant to
foreshadow Tony's death.
Moreover, he said the man in the "Members Only" jacket could be
interpreted as
a
symbolic reference to membership in the mob. "Members Only" also was the
title
of the episode in which Tony's demented Uncle Junior shoots him in the gut.
The "Members Only" guy was played by the owner of a real-life pizza parlor,
Paolo Colandrea. Schaffer denied reports that Colandrea had appeared
earlier
in
the series as the nephew of Tony's New York gang rival, or that there ever was
such a character. He also dismissed reports that Chase had filmed more
than
one
ending to the finale.
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JerseyRudy
2007-06-15 20:39:27 UTC
Permalink
That's a good analysis of the show. I agree with much of your analysis, which is
why I disagree with you about the ending...I think it was a great ending for
this show. 

What made the show stand out was the fact that it had a combination of graphic
violence and elevated symbolism and ambiguity.  All those elements were always
occurring together, and that continued right up until the end.  There were
plenty of instances throughout the show in which Chase chose not to be graphic
or have a tidy ending (we never saw Adriana get shot, which led to speculation
that she was still alive; we never knew what happened to the Russian in the Pine
Barrens episode, which led to speculation that he would return and seek
revenge). 

I would like to hear an example of how you would have chosen to wrap this show
up, given your obvious awareness of the complexity and ambiguity of the show.  I
think it goes back to what someone else said about the curse of high
expectations; there is no way to end a show like this that would satisfy most
people. 

It is true that Tony was always searching for a higher understanding and a more
meaningful existence, (as were all his immediate family members except Carmella
who always had her head in the sand) but one of the points that was made at the
end is that this search will always be elusive (Tony is content to eat onion
rings and be with his family and collect envelopes of cash every week from his
depleted crew; Meadow is content to take a high-paying job with a law firm and
marry into the Parisi family; A.J. is content to take the Mercedes and his
entry-level job for the crappy Daniel Baldwin movie).   It goes on and on and on
and on...that is the point.
Post by Beuksux
i have no problem with ambiguity, symbolism, and cinema that drops clues that
are subject to interpretation.....
ie: Blue Velvet and a personal favorite of mine: 'Twin Peaks' which i've seen
probably 3 or 4 times.
but the Sopranos wasn't that kind of show. it has nothing to do with being
simple minded, it has to do with consistancy. the sopranos was consistantly
graphic. how many murders did we witness? how many times did we see tony on his
back getting his dick sucked or fucking someone other than his wife? how many
first hand beat downs did we witness?...nore of which were alluded to or
implied. it was a graphic show and fans of the show sought some sort of closure
which was denied us.
plus there were way too many loose ends which made the last episode suck even
more. the underlying theme throughout the show is a mobster who is seeking
insight into himself in a quest to elevate his state of consciousness.
it's why his therapy was such a huge part of the show, and was in fact the
'hook' that separated tony from all other 'on screen' mobsters. it was the
therapy, and his motives for going, that drove the show and gave the character
his appeal.
when he got shot and was in the hospital with the scientist who died of cancer,
if you recall, he was having a moment of clarity in his life and was intrigued
by the guy's philosophy. tony was digging deep here, as the scientist explained
how we're all not seperate, but collectively intertwined, and tony was grasping
here for insight beyond the routine of his 'mob' life.
it was addressed again when he went to vegas and tripped in the desert on peyote
with that hot girl. at the end of the episode, he raised his hands in jubilation
and shouted, 'i get it!'
then when he went back home and told the crew at the club, 'i saw the sun' he
was trying to share a moment of insight and depth of consciousness with his
cronies, then clammed up when he realized he may as well have been talking to a
wall.
then there's Melfi: torn between her relationship as tony's therapist and her
peers' assessment of the futility of treating criminals with therapy, all based
upon this study they were using as a reference. Chase gives insight into the
inner workings of tony's character throughout the series, and makes a clear
impression that tony is not a typical criminal, (despite his chosen lifestyle)
and possesses a true desire to discover himself and elevate his consciousness.
chase shows us that tony's mind functions on a higher level than those of his
mob cronies, which created a dilemma that displayed itself throughout the
series.
the reason why the end sucked is because this all important theme was neglected
at the series' end. he may as well have not had all those sessions of therapy,
never dropped peyote, and never sought to question his life on a deeper level,
because Chase chose to drop the whole theme with his shitty, dead end
conclusion.
after 86 episodes tony started out a certain person, and when the series
concluded, he was the same fucking person. so what was the point?
any work of literature or cinema has the need for the protagonist to go through
a series of chages, the plot leads the main character through some sort of
metamprphosis whether its evolution (ie: self discovery) or degeneration (ie: a
slow decent into madness).
but in the end the character of tony soprano did neither.
Post by JerseyRudy
Yeah, that's right.  Power to the masses!  Power to the simpleminded!  Power to
the stupid!   The Sopranos finale sucked! David Chase sucks!  HBO sucks!  We
want to see the bullet go into Tony Sopranos brain!  We want to see a nuclear
warhead strike Holstens!  We want to see blood and body parts ! 
We are Americans damnit!  We hate ambiguity!  Give us what we are used to or
fuck you!
Now enough with this crap. Let's all go enjoy that box-office juggernaut
"Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer"...now that's a movie for the people!
Post by James L. Hankins
Beuksux is right---we got jacked off.
The pretentious art-house crowd can crow all they want about the brilliant
subtlety of ambiguity and smirk because they pretend to "get it" but when
the screen went black I'd bet they were with the rest of us screaming, "what
the fuck?!"
You got it right. After 8 years of 'seizing clues' I stopped the moment I
realized it wasn't my cable going down.
BTW Chase has already said he isn't closed to the possibility of a movie.
It's sorta like voting for Bush the first time around, I can understand
that, but voting twice for the idiot, well I gotta believe you like
getting f***ed over.
It was good for 8 years, outlasted 2 of my marriages, and like those
marriages when it went bad it went really bad, holding on can only make it
worse.
It's over.
Post by Beuksux
you know what, fuck that 'seizing clues' bullshit.
when tony was choking some snitch to death with a wire, we saw it.
when tony was on his back getting a blowjob, we saw it.
when tony pinched chris' nose and suffocated him, we saw that too.
for 86 episodes, the writers didn't drop clues and leave it to us to
interpret
what was going on. the sopranos was a graphic show, where the creators
gave us
visuals, and showed us exactly what they wanted us to see.
now all of a sudden, in the final moments we get an ending that is
'subject to
interpretation'
fuck that. we got jacked off.
there was no ending. they left it open so in 3 years when gandolfini
and
chase
are broke, they can cash in on that $50 million movie deal.
Post by KookieMonstr
Damn, it took people a long time to see this... Fuckin told you....
http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/06/15/television.sopranos
.reut/index.html
LOS ANGELES, California (Reuters) -- Fans of "The Sopranos" are seizing
on
clues
suggesting the controversial blackout which abruptly ended the TV mob drama
meant that Tony Soprano was rubbed out, and HBO said Thursday they may
be on
to
something.
One clue in particular, a flashback in the penultimate episode to a
conversation
between Tony and his brother-in-law about death, gained credence as an
HBO
spokesman called it a "legitimate" hint and confirmed that series
creator
David
Chase had a definite ending in mind.
"While he won't say to me 100 percent what it all means, he says some
people
who've guessed have come closer than others," HBO spokesman Quentin
Schaffer
told Reuters after speaking to Chase.
"There are definitely things there that he intended for people to pick
up on,"
Schaffer said. (javascript:cnnVideo( )
Chase himself suggested as much in an interview Tuesday with The
Star-Ledger
newspaper of New Jersey when he said of his end to the HBO series,
"Anyone who
wants to watch it, it's all there."
In the final moments of Sunday's concluding episode, Tony, the
conflicted mob
boss who has just survived a round of gangland warfare, sits in a diner
with
his
family munching on onion rings as the 1980s song by rock band Journey,
"Don't
Stop Believin'," blares from a juke box.
Tension builds as a suspicious man wearing a "Members Only" jacket
eyes
Tony
from a nearby counter before slipping into a restroom. Then, as Tony looks
toward the restaurant's entrance, the screen abruptly goes blank in
mid-scene
--
with no picture or sound for 10 seconds -- until the credits roll silently.
Stunned viewers, many initially believing something had gone wrong
with
their
cable TV reception, were left wondering whether Tony ended up
"whacked"
or
whether his sordid life went on as usual.
Even star James Gandolfini wasn't sure.
"You have to ask ('The Sopranos' creator) David Chase that. Smarter
minds than
mine know the answer to that," Gandolfini told the New York Daily
News.
"I
thought it was a great ending. You decide."
The jarring, fill-in-the-blank finale, concluding a show widely hailed
as
America's greatest television drama, sparked a furious debate about whether
Chase had conceived of an actual ending and whether he left the audience
any
clues.
The biggest hint, according to a consensus taking shape on the Web, is a
scene
from an earlier episode in which Tony and his brother-in-law, Bobby
"Bacala"
Baccalieri, muse about what it feels like to die.
"At the end, you probably don't hear anything, everything just goes black,"
Bobby says while they sit fishing in a small boat on a lake.
That scene is recalled briefly in a flashback played at the end of the
penultimate "Sopranos" episode, as Tony is lying in the darkened room of
a
safehouse clutching a machine gun to his chest in the midst of a mob war.
"I think that is one of the most legitimate things to look at," Schaffer
said
when asked about theories that the Bobby Bacala flashback was meant to
foreshadow Tony's death.
Moreover, he said the man in the "Members Only" jacket could be
interpreted as
a
symbolic reference to membership in the mob. "Members Only" also was the
title
of the episode in which Tony's demented Uncle Junior shoots him in the
gut.
The "Members Only" guy was played by the owner of a real-life pizza parlor,
Paolo Colandrea. Schaffer denied reports that Colandrea had appeared
earlier
in
the series as the nephew of Tony's New York gang rival, or that there
ever was
such a character. He also dismissed reports that Chase had filmed more
than
one
ending to the finale.
_______________________________________________________________
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_______________________________________________________________
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R
2007-06-15 22:09:54 UTC
Permalink
Give it up guys . . . the analysis is good . . . but consider this, you want
an ending . . . HBOs 'Six Feet Under' was so perfect, so satisfying, I've
watched it three times and each time I am moved deeply. I don't expect to
watch the 'Soprano' finale ever . . . some things just need to end, if only
because they would have gone on ad nauseum . . . but in the end, well,
everybody dies.

Let the series die. It deserves it now as much as T ever did.
Post by JerseyRudy
That's a good analysis of the show. I agree with much of your analysis, which is
why I disagree with you about the ending...I think it was a great ending for
this show.
What made the show stand out was the fact that it had a combination of graphic
violence and elevated symbolism and ambiguity. All those elements were
always
occurring together, and that continued right up until the end. There were
plenty of instances throughout the show in which Chase chose not to be graphic
or have a tidy ending (we never saw Adriana get shot, which led to speculation
that she was still alive; we never knew what happened to the Russian in the Pine
Barrens episode, which led to speculation that he would return and seek
revenge).
I would like to hear an example of how you would have chosen to wrap this show
up, given your obvious awareness of the complexity and ambiguity of the
show. I
think it goes back to what someone else said about the curse of high
expectations; there is no way to end a show like this that would satisfy most
people.
It is true that Tony was always searching for a higher understanding and a more
meaningful existence, (as were all his immediate family members except
Carmella
who always had her head in the sand) but one of the points that was made at the
end is that this search will always be elusive (Tony is content to eat onion
rings and be with his family and collect envelopes of cash every week from his
depleted crew; Meadow is content to take a high-paying job with a law firm and
marry into the Parisi family; A.J. is content to take the Mercedes and his
entry-level job for the crappy Daniel Baldwin movie). It goes on and on
and on
and on...that is the point.
Post by Beuksux
i have no problem with ambiguity, symbolism, and cinema that drops clues that
are subject to interpretation.....
ie: Blue Velvet and a personal favorite of mine: 'Twin Peaks' which i've
seen
probably 3 or 4 times.
but the Sopranos wasn't that kind of show. it has nothing to do with being
simple minded, it has to do with consistancy. the sopranos was consistantly
graphic. how many murders did we witness? how many times did we see tony
on
his
back getting his dick sucked or fucking someone other than his wife? how many
first hand beat downs did we witness?...nore of which were alluded to or
implied. it was a graphic show and fans of the show sought some sort of closure
which was denied us.
plus there were way too many loose ends which made the last episode suck even
more. the underlying theme throughout the show is a mobster who is seeking
insight into himself in a quest to elevate his state of consciousness.
it's why his therapy was such a huge part of the show, and was in fact the
'hook' that separated tony from all other 'on screen' mobsters. it was the
therapy, and his motives for going, that drove the show and gave the character
his appeal.
when he got shot and was in the hospital with the scientist who died of cancer,
if you recall, he was having a moment of clarity in his life and was intrigued
by the guy's philosophy. tony was digging deep here, as the scientist explained
how we're all not seperate, but collectively intertwined, and tony was grasping
here for insight beyond the routine of his 'mob' life.
it was addressed again when he went to vegas and tripped in the desert on peyote
with that hot girl. at the end of the episode, he raised his hands in jubilation
and shouted, 'i get it!'
then when he went back home and told the crew at the club, 'i saw the sun' he
was trying to share a moment of insight and depth of consciousness with his
cronies, then clammed up when he realized he may as well have been
talking to
a
wall.
then there's Melfi: torn between her relationship as tony's therapist and her
peers' assessment of the futility of treating criminals with therapy, all based
upon this study they were using as a reference. Chase gives insight into
the
inner workings of tony's character throughout the series, and makes a clear
impression that tony is not a typical criminal, (despite his chosen lifestyle)
and possesses a true desire to discover himself and elevate his
consciousness.
chase shows us that tony's mind functions on a higher level than those of his
mob cronies, which created a dilemma that displayed itself throughout the
series.
the reason why the end sucked is because this all important theme was neglected
at the series' end. he may as well have not had all those sessions of therapy,
never dropped peyote, and never sought to question his life on a deeper level,
because Chase chose to drop the whole theme with his shitty, dead end
conclusion.
after 86 episodes tony started out a certain person, and when the series
concluded, he was the same fucking person. so what was the point?
any work of literature or cinema has the need for the protagonist to go through
a series of chages, the plot leads the main character through some sort
of
metamprphosis whether its evolution (ie: self discovery) or degeneration
a
slow decent into madness).
but in the end the character of tony soprano did neither.
Yeah, that's right. Power to the masses! Power to the simpleminded!
Power
to
the stupid! The Sopranos finale sucked! David Chase sucks! HBO sucks!
We
want to see the bullet go into Tony Sopranos brain! We want to see a
nuclear
warhead strike Holstens! We want to see blood and body parts !
We are Americans damnit! We hate ambiguity! Give us what we are used to
or
fuck you!
Now enough with this crap. Let's all go enjoy that box-office juggernaut
"Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer"...now that's a movie for
the
people!
Post by James L. Hankins
Beuksux is right---we got jacked off.
The pretentious art-house crowd can crow all they want about the brilliant
subtlety of ambiguity and smirk because they pretend to "get it" but when
the screen went black I'd bet they were with the rest of us
screaming,
"what
the fuck?!"
You got it right. After 8 years of 'seizing clues' I stopped the
moment
I
realized it wasn't my cable going down.
BTW Chase has already said he isn't closed to the possibility of a movie.
It's sorta like voting for Bush the first time around, I can understand
that, but voting twice for the idiot, well I gotta believe you like
getting f***ed over.
It was good for 8 years, outlasted 2 of my marriages, and like those
marriages when it went bad it went really bad, holding on can only
make
it
worse.
It's over.
Post by Beuksux
you know what, fuck that 'seizing clues' bullshit.
when tony was choking some snitch to death with a wire, we saw it.
when tony was on his back getting a blowjob, we saw it.
when tony pinched chris' nose and suffocated him, we saw that too.
for 86 episodes, the writers didn't drop clues and leave it to us to
interpret
what was going on. the sopranos was a graphic show, where the creators
gave us
visuals, and showed us exactly what they wanted us to see.
now all of a sudden, in the final moments we get an ending that is
'subject to
interpretation'
fuck that. we got jacked off.
there was no ending. they left it open so in 3 years when gandolfini
and
chase
are broke, they can cash in on that $50 million movie deal.
Post by KookieMonstr
Damn, it took people a long time to see this... Fuckin told you....
http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/06/15/television.sopranos
.reut/index.html
LOS ANGELES, California (Reuters) -- Fans of "The Sopranos" are seizing
on
clues
suggesting the controversial blackout which abruptly ended the TV
mob
drama
meant that Tony Soprano was rubbed out, and HBO said Thursday they may
be on
to
something.
One clue in particular, a flashback in the penultimate episode to a
conversation
between Tony and his brother-in-law about death, gained credence as an
HBO
spokesman called it a "legitimate" hint and confirmed that series
creator
David
Chase had a definite ending in mind.
"While he won't say to me 100 percent what it all means, he says some
people
who've guessed have come closer than others," HBO spokesman Quentin
Schaffer
told Reuters after speaking to Chase.
"There are definitely things there that he intended for people to pick
up on,"
Schaffer said. (javascript:cnnVideo( )
Chase himself suggested as much in an interview Tuesday with The
Star-Ledger
newspaper of New Jersey when he said of his end to the HBO series,
"Anyone who
wants to watch it, it's all there."
In the final moments of Sunday's concluding episode, Tony, the
conflicted mob
boss who has just survived a round of gangland warfare, sits in a diner
with
his
family munching on onion rings as the 1980s song by rock band Journey,
"Don't
Stop Believin'," blares from a juke box.
Tension builds as a suspicious man wearing a "Members Only" jacket
eyes
Tony
from a nearby counter before slipping into a restroom. Then, as
Tony
looks
toward the restaurant's entrance, the screen abruptly goes blank in
mid-scene
--
with no picture or sound for 10 seconds -- until the credits roll
silently.
Stunned viewers, many initially believing something had gone wrong
with
their
cable TV reception, were left wondering whether Tony ended up
"whacked"
or
whether his sordid life went on as usual.
Even star James Gandolfini wasn't sure.
"You have to ask ('The Sopranos' creator) David Chase that. Smarter
minds than
mine know the answer to that," Gandolfini told the New York Daily
News.
"I
thought it was a great ending. You decide."
The jarring, fill-in-the-blank finale, concluding a show widely hailed
as
America's greatest television drama, sparked a furious debate
about
whether
Chase had conceived of an actual ending and whether he left the audience
any
clues.
The biggest hint, according to a consensus taking shape on the
Web, is
a
scene
from an earlier episode in which Tony and his brother-in-law, Bobby
"Bacala"
Baccalieri, muse about what it feels like to die.
"At the end, you probably don't hear anything, everything just
goes
black,"
Bobby says while they sit fishing in a small boat on a lake.
That scene is recalled briefly in a flashback played at the end of the
penultimate "Sopranos" episode, as Tony is lying in the darkened
room
of
a
safehouse clutching a machine gun to his chest in the midst of a
mob
war.
"I think that is one of the most legitimate things to look at," Schaffer
said
when asked about theories that the Bobby Bacala flashback was meant to
foreshadow Tony's death.
Moreover, he said the man in the "Members Only" jacket could be
interpreted as
a
symbolic reference to membership in the mob. "Members Only" also
was
the
title
of the episode in which Tony's demented Uncle Junior shoots him in the
gut.
The "Members Only" guy was played by the owner of a real-life
pizza
parlor,
Paolo Colandrea. Schaffer denied reports that Colandrea had appeared
earlier
in
the series as the nephew of Tony's New York gang rival, or that there
ever was
such a character. He also dismissed reports that Chase had filmed more
than
one
ending to the finale.
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Beuksux
2007-06-17 06:27:31 UTC
Permalink
I would like to hear an example of how you would have chosen to wrap this show
Post by JerseyRudy
up, given your obvious awareness of the complexity and ambiguity of the show.  I
think it goes back to what someone else said about the curse of high
expectations; there is no way to end a show like this that would satisfy most
people. 
i'm not going to offer any examples of how i'd have wrapped it up, it's really
not my place to decide that.

i'll offer a few things that i thought were misplaced, since i don't want to
give the impression that i'm just harping on the last 30 seconds of the final
episode.

had his peyote trip been two seasons ago, then kind of left dangling out there
in the wind, it wouldn't have bothered me as much.

the problem i had with that whole episode was the timing. when you're in the
last few chapters of a story, and the main character has what seems to be an
epiphany of monumental relevance, you gotta wrap that up or run with it. you
can't drop that into the lap of the audience two episodes before the finale then
leave it hanging out there like it never happened.

tony goes out to vegas by himself, seems to be at his wits end with the
lifestyle, his cronies, and coming right off the heels of killing chris, raises
his hands in jubilation and shouts, 'i get it'!

that screams of significance, and gives the audience the impression that tony
has 'turned the corner' on some level. IMHO it's bad writing to drop that in my
lap then instead give me inane and meaningless scenes in the final episode like
AJ's jeep catching on fire, and paulie cracking jokes at Bobby's funeral.

if tony did indeed get whacked in the diner, i'd have appreciated it more if
there was a threat of some kind still present from previous episodes.

the scene with bobby on the boat gives us a great element of foreshadowing
(speculating on what it's like to get whacked), but the way the phil situation
got resolved completely killed the relevance of that scene. why? because tony
had the consent of the NY family to clip phil. phil gets taken out, and in the
process, the audience is given the impression that there isn't any immediate
threat to tony's life.

had there still been some friction between tony and the NY family, the ending
scene would have retained it's relevance: you'd have an element of foreshadowing
(which makes for a build up of drama in any literary work) and an antagonist,
someone with a motive to kill tony. but chase killed the last remaining
antagonist, and gave us a tidy solution to the only threat when phil got
clipped.

so if tony got killed and everything went black, who might it have been and what
was the motive? the show's last remaining antagonist was dead, making tony's
murder misplaced and arbitrary.

to have him sitting in the diner looking at all these potential 'assassins'
amidst an ominous mood, as if something big is about to go down after you killed
off the last remaining threat to tony's life, then try to sell me on his murder
without a motive or a suspect is just bad and thoughtless writing.

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JerseyRudy
2007-06-18 14:59:30 UTC
Permalink
Just to address one of your criticisms:

"so if tony got killed and everything went black, who might it have been and
what
was the motive? the show's last remaining antagonist was dead, making tony's
murder misplaced and arbitrary."

There are several logical motives. 1) revenge by someone who is still loyal to
Phil, such as a blood relative.  This would explain why Tony gets whcked in
front of his family. Normally this a violation of the Mob Code, but Phil was
whacked in front of his wife, so it would make sense that someone close to Phil
would get revenge by whacking Tony in front of his family;  2)  a plan between
the New York crew (led by Butchie) and the remnants of the New Jersey crew (led
by Paulie) to eliminate both Phil and Tony and divide the spoils between
themselves.  That last meeting in the warehouse went so smoothly for Tony, it
was almost too easy (Butchie hated Tony from the prior few episodes and all of a
sudden in that meeting he was very cooperative). 

Again, the ending is left ambigious so we don't know what happened, but to say
that it would not have made sense to have Tony whacked at the end is wrong. If
anything it shows that you would have criticized the ending no matter what
happened.
Post by JerseyRudy
I would like to hear an example of how you would have chosen to wrap this show
Post by JerseyRudy
up, given your obvious awareness of the complexity and ambiguity of the
show. 
I
think it goes back to what someone else said about the curse of high
expectations; there is no way to end a show like this that would satisfy most
people. 
i'm not going to offer any examples of how i'd have wrapped it up, it's really
not my place to decide that.
i'll offer a few things that i thought were misplaced, since i don't want to
give the impression that i'm just harping on the last 30 seconds of the final
episode.
had his peyote trip been two seasons ago, then kind of left dangling out there
in the wind, it wouldn't have bothered me as much.
the problem i had with that whole episode was the timing. when you're in the
last few chapters of a story, and the main character has what seems to be an
epiphany of monumental relevance, you gotta wrap that up or run with it. you
can't drop that into the lap of the audience two episodes before the finale then
leave it hanging out there like it never happened.
tony goes out to vegas by himself, seems to be at his wits end with the
lifestyle, his cronies, and coming right off the heels of killing chris, raises
his hands in jubilation and shouts, 'i get it'!
that screams of significance, and gives the audience the impression that tony
has 'turned the corner' on some level. IMHO it's bad writing to drop that in my
lap then instead give me inane and meaningless scenes in the final episode like
AJ's jeep catching on fire, and paulie cracking jokes at Bobby's funeral.
if tony did indeed get whacked in the diner, i'd have appreciated it more if
there was a threat of some kind still present from previous episodes.
the scene with bobby on the boat gives us a great element of foreshadowing
(speculating on what it's like to get whacked), but the way the phil situation
got resolved completely killed the relevance of that scene. why? because tony
had the consent of the NY family to clip phil. phil gets taken out, and in the
process, the audience is given the impression that there isn't any immediate
threat to tony's life.
had there still been some friction between tony and the NY family, the ending
scene would have retained it's relevance: you'd have an element of foreshadowing
(which makes for a build up of drama in any literary work) and an antagonist,
someone with a motive to kill tony. but chase killed the last remaining
antagonist, and gave us a tidy solution to the only threat when phil got
clipped.
so if tony got killed and everything went black, who might it have been and what
was the motive? the show's last remaining antagonist was dead, making tony's
murder misplaced and arbitrary.
to have him sitting in the diner looking at all these potential 'assassins'
amidst an ominous mood, as if something big is about to go down after you killed
off the last remaining threat to tony's life, then try to sell me on his murder
without a motive or a suspect is just bad and thoughtless writing.
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KilgoreTrout
2007-06-15 22:29:29 UTC
Permalink
On Jun 15 2007 4:16 PM, Beuksux wrote:

snip a good list of reasons the show was good.
Post by Beuksux
the reason why the end sucked is because this all important theme was neglected
at the series' end. he may as well have not had all those sessions of therapy,
never dropped peyote, and never sought to question his life on a deeper level,
because Chase chose to drop the whole theme with his shitty, dead end
conclusion.
But that's why it was such a good ending (IMHO!)!! Not cuz of the reason
Hankins lists:

"The pretentious art-house crowd can crow all they want about the
brilliant subtlety of ambiguity and smirk because they pretend to "get it"
but when the screen went black I'd bet they were with the rest of us
screaming, "what the fuck?!""

What made it refreshing was that we *didn't* have another generic finale,
with most of the major themes being addressed, and all the important
"loose-ends" oh so neatly tied off.
Post by Beuksux
after 86 episodes tony started out a certain person, and when the series
concluded, he was the same fucking person. so what was the point?
There was a desire to change, there were many minor changes, the
occasional attempt at the "I'm really trying to change" gesture, often
followed by backsliding into "ah, fuck it" mentality.

Yeah, he went through a lot of backsliding.

That's how real people *are*, dewd! Again, IMHO.
Post by Beuksux
any work of literature or cinema has the need for the protagonist to go through
a series of chages, the plot leads the main character through some sort of
metamprphosis whether its evolution (ie: self discovery) or degeneration (ie: a
slow decent into madness).
I disagree with the above statement. This may be the crux.
Post by Beuksux
but in the end the character of tony soprano did neither.
<applause>

Cheers.

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Beuksux
2007-06-17 06:55:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Beuksux
Post by Beuksux
any work of literature or cinema has the need for the protagonist to go
through
Post by Beuksux
a series of chages, the plot leads the main character through some sort of
metamprphosis whether its evolution (ie: self discovery) or degeneration
(ie: a
Post by Beuksux
slow decent into madness).
I disagree with the above statement. This may be the crux.
you can disagree, but it's fiction 101.

show me any great (or even good) work of fiction where the main character starts
and ends in the same place?

any work of fiction needs essential elements:

*a protagonist (main character)
*an antagonist or antagonists (someone or something that creates conflict for
the main character)
*a plot (series of events or circumstances (conflict) that force the protagonist
to go through a series of changes, which may imapct him for better or worse)
*a climax (a resolution to the plot)
*and a conclusion (the writer wraps up the story, often with a surprise ending
- which is not an essential element but generally makes for a great conclusion)

without the above you have nothing.

there are reasons why Shakespeare is still widely read and oft imitated.

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KilgoreTrout
2007-06-17 12:50:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Beuksux
Post by Beuksux
Post by Beuksux
any work of literature or cinema has the need for the protagonist to go
through
Post by Beuksux
a series of chages, the plot leads the main character through some sort of
metamprphosis whether its evolution (ie: self discovery) or degeneration
(ie: a
Post by Beuksux
slow decent into madness).
I disagree with the above statement. This may be the crux.
you can disagree, but it's fiction 101.
show me any great (or even good) work of fiction where the main character starts
and ends in the same place?
*a protagonist (main character)
*an antagonist or antagonists (someone or something that creates conflict for
the main character)
*a plot (series of events or circumstances (conflict) that force the
protagonist
Post by Beuksux
to go through a series of changes, which may imapct him for better or worse)
*a climax (a resolution to the plot)
*and a conclusion (the writer wraps up the story, often with a surprise ending
- which is not an essential element but generally makes for a great
conclusion)
Post by Beuksux
without the above you have nothing.
there are reasons why Shakespeare is still widely read and oft imitated.
Painters were once judged almost completely by their ability to
realistically capture "scenes".

Basically, human cameras.

Stuff changes. That list is way too formulaic, for me.

Cheers.

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JerseyRudy
2007-06-18 15:19:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Beuksux
Post by Beuksux
Post by Beuksux
any work of literature or cinema has the need for the protagonist to go
through
Post by Beuksux
a series of chages, the plot leads the main character through some sort of
metamprphosis whether its evolution (ie: self discovery) or degeneration
(ie: a
Post by Beuksux
slow decent into madness).
I disagree with the above statement. This may be the crux.
you can disagree, but it's fiction 101.
show me any great (or even good) work of fiction where the main character starts
and ends in the same place?
*a protagonist (main character)
*an antagonist or antagonists (someone or something that creates conflict for
the main character)
*a plot (series of events or circumstances (conflict) that force the protagonist
to go through a series of changes, which may imapct him for better or worse)
*a climax (a resolution to the plot)
*and a conclusion (the writer wraps up the story, often with a surprise ending
- which is not an essential element but generally makes for a great conclusion)
without the above you have nothing.
there are reasons why Shakespeare is still widely read and oft imitated.
Do you remember the end of King Lear?  One of Shakespeare's classics, and it
ends with very similar questions about the future of the protagonist that we
have about Tony Soprano.  Certainly no neat tidy ending.  I assume you have the
same criticism of King Lear and Shakespeare, despite what you say above.



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readyfireaim
2007-06-15 19:44:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by R
It's sorta like voting for Bush the first time around, I can understand
that, but voting twice for the idiot, well I gotta believe you like getting
f***ed over.
Bush is, essentially, an imbecile - albeit an imbecile reading from a prewritten
script, but he is way the fuck better for than either of the two commies the
dems thought they could slip by us the last two times. Therefore voting for Bush
the second time was no different than the first. We had to hold our noses while
we did it - but it was for the good of the country. So far I don't see anyone
any better running on the dems ticket this time either. Its like Stewart said on
the Daily Show - the fact that the dems can't run anybody able to beat Bush is
pathetic. But they didn't - and it appears they won't have anyone this time
either who is able to beat whatever pubican gets the nod. So I ask - What the
fuck is wrong with the democratic party? I mean besides all the commies?


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KilgoreTrout
2007-06-15 22:48:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by readyfireaim
Post by R
It's sorta like voting for Bush the first time around, I can understand
that, but voting twice for the idiot, well I gotta believe you like getting
f***ed over.
Bush is, essentially, an imbecile - albeit an imbecile reading from a prewritten
script, but he is way the fuck better for than either of the two commies the
dems thought they could slip by us the last two times. Therefore voting for Bush
the second time was no different than the first. We had to hold our noses while
we did it - but it was for the good of the country. So far I don't see anyone
any better running on the dems ticket this time either. Its like Stewart said on
the Daily Show - the fact that the dems can't run anybody able to beat Bush is
pathetic. But they didn't - and it appears they won't have anyone this time
either who is able to beat whatever pubican gets the nod. So I ask - What the
fuck is wrong with the democratic party? I mean besides all the commies?
Who knows.

You've done a pretty good job of nutshellin' what's wrong with the folks
on the other side, though.

Cheers.

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billb
2007-06-15 19:23:43 UTC
Permalink
"KookieMonstr" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1181922469$***@recpoker.com...

http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/06/15/television.sopranos.reut/index.html
Post by KookieMonstr
LOS ANGELES, California (Reuters) -- Fans of "The Sopranos" are seizing on clues
suggesting the controversial blackout which abruptly ended the TV mob drama
meant that Tony Soprano was rubbed out, and HBO said Thursday they may be on to
something.
One clue in particular, a flashback in the penultimate episode to a conversation
between Tony and his brother-in-law about death, gained credence as an HBO
spokesman called it a "legitimate" hint and confirmed that series creator David
Chase had a definite ending in mind.
"While he won't say to me 100 percent what it all means, he says some people
who've guessed have come closer than others," HBO spokesman Quentin Schaffer
told Reuters after speaking to Chase.
"There are definitely things there that he intended for people to pick up on,"
Schaffer said. (javascript:cnnVideo( javascript:cnnVideo()
Chase himself suggested as much in an interview Tuesday with The Star-Ledger
newspaper of New Jersey when he said of his end to the HBO series, "Anyone who
wants to watch it, it's all there."
In the final moments of Sunday's concluding episode, Tony, the conflicted mob
boss who has just survived a round of gangland warfare, sits in a diner with his
family munching on onion rings as the 1980s song by rock band Journey, "Don't
Stop Believin'," blares from a juke box.
Tension builds as a suspicious man wearing a "Members Only" jacket eyes Tony
from a nearby counter before slipping into a restroom. Then, as Tony looks
toward the restaurant's entrance, the screen abruptly goes blank in mid-scene --
with no picture or sound for 10 seconds -- until the credits roll silently.
Stunned viewers, many initially believing something had gone wrong with their
cable TV reception, were left wondering whether Tony ended up "whacked" or
whether his sordid life went on as usual.
Even star James Gandolfini wasn't sure.
"You have to ask ('The Sopranos' creator) David Chase that. Smarter minds than
mine know the answer to that," Gandolfini told the New York Daily News. "I
thought it was a great ending. You decide."
The jarring, fill-in-the-blank finale, concluding a show widely hailed as
America's greatest television drama, sparked a furious debate about whether
Chase had conceived of an actual ending and whether he left the audience any
clues.
The biggest hint, according to a consensus taking shape on the Web, is a scene
from an earlier episode in which Tony and his brother-in-law, Bobby "Bacala"
Baccalieri, muse about what it feels like to die.
"At the end, you probably don't hear anything, everything just goes black,"
Bobby says while they sit fishing in a small boat on a lake.
That scene is recalled briefly in a flashback played at the end of the
penultimate "Sopranos" episode, as Tony is lying in the darkened room of a
safehouse clutching a machine gun to his chest in the midst of a mob war.
"I think that is one of the most legitimate things to look at," Schaffer said
when asked about theories that the Bobby Bacala flashback was meant to
foreshadow Tony's death.
Moreover, he said the man in the "Members Only" jacket could be interpreted as a
symbolic reference to membership in the mob. "Members Only" also was the title
of the episode in which Tony's demented Uncle Junior shoots him in the gut.
The "Members Only" guy was played by the owner of a real-life pizza parlor,
Paolo Colandrea. Schaffer denied reports that Colandrea had appeared earlier in
the series as the nephew of Tony's New York gang rival, or that there ever was
such a character. He also dismissed reports that Chase had filmed more than one
ending to the finale.
No, that's not the real answer. That's what you are supposed to think.
There's still money to be rung out of this franchise.

My guess is somebody died but it wasn't Tony. Probably a hit on Meadow to
punish Tony. There are clues. Remember when Tony said "don't worry, they
always leave the family members out of it."?
billb
2007-06-15 19:27:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by billb
There's still money to be rung out of this franchise.
uhhh... I think I meant to wring out of this franchise
Irish Mike
2007-06-16 00:49:09 UTC
Permalink
Your spelling and grammar may suck but your assessment is correct. Way too
much money in the "Sopranos" to whack Tony.

Irish Mike
Post by billb
Post by billb
There's still money to be rung out of this franchise.
uhhh... I think I meant to wring out of this franchise
readyfireaim
2007-06-16 01:29:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Irish Mike
Your spelling and grammar may suck but your assessment is correct. Way too
much money in the "Sopranos" to whack Tony.
Yep, I'm personally in the camp that sees Phil being killed and his captains
calling for peace as an open and shut situation - Meadow just tripped over the
cameras extension cord on her way in the door jerking it out of the wall socket
and the camera went black - oops...

Uh, there will be a movie and all will be well...




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Irish Mike
2007-06-16 01:59:42 UTC
Permalink
If HBO was smart they would have someone, other than David Chase, write a
new mob series. More action than the Sopranos and a whole lot less
egotistical bull shit. Like Chase's dumb ass dream sequences and his plot
lines that go no where and just leave the audience and fans hanging. For
example, the Russian in the pine barrens. Or, writing out
Furio who was one of the most interesting characters in the series.

Irish Mike
Post by readyfireaim
Post by Irish Mike
Your spelling and grammar may suck but your assessment is correct. Way too
much money in the "Sopranos" to whack Tony.
Yep, I'm personally in the camp that sees Phil being killed and his captains
calling for peace as an open and shut situation - Meadow just tripped over the
cameras extension cord on her way in the door jerking it out of the wall socket
and the camera went black - oops...
Uh, there will be a movie and all will be well...
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readyfireaim
2007-06-16 17:57:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Irish Mike
If HBO was smart they would have someone, other than David Chase, write a
Yeah but I'm beginning to think that they're not all that smart. Killing off
Rome is stupid, killing off Deadwood is stupid - Sopranos, eh they was ready.
But there was still a lot of good stuff going on in Rome after Mark Antony was
cided. They could have kept that going for another five seasons easily. And
Deadwood - don't get me started - lol...




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Beuksux
2007-06-17 05:39:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by readyfireaim
Yeah but I'm beginning to think that they're not all that smart. Killing off
Rome is stupid, killing off Deadwood is stupid - Sopranos, eh they was ready.
But there was still a lot of good stuff going on in Rome after Mark Antony was
cided. They could have kept that going for another five seasons easily. And
Deadwood - don't get me started - lol...
i was disappointed when they ended Rome, but more than likely it was a budgetary
consideration. considering the costumes, sets, the hundreds of extras in real
life roman soldier garb needed to authenticate the feel of ancient Rome, it
probably cost boatloads of money to shoot that series and perhaps the reason
they pulled the plug.

it's much easier and cheaper to keep a contemporary show like 'entourage' going.
after all it's a show about hollywood produced in hollywood. very economical.


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Irish Mike
2007-06-17 12:16:25 UTC
Permalink
I also hated to see Rome, Deadwood and the Sopranos end. The Wire is worth
watching but I don't think the new season starts until September. I've
never watched Entourage but based on the comments here, may give it a look.
I watched the first episode of John from Cincinnati last Sunday and it
seemed kind of lame. A surfing show doesn't seem to compete with Rome,
Deadwood and the Sopranos. However, David Milch did great work on the early
years of NYPD Blue and Deadwood so I'll keep watching (at least for a while)
because of that.

If HBO was smart they'd come out with a new mob series and hire some one
other than David Chase to write it. As good as the Sopranos was, I really
got tired of his stupid fucking dream sequences and dead end plot lines.

Irish Mike
Post by Beuksux
Post by readyfireaim
Yeah but I'm beginning to think that they're not all that smart. Killing off
Rome is stupid, killing off Deadwood is stupid - Sopranos, eh they was ready.
But there was still a lot of good stuff going on in Rome after Mark Antony was
cided. They could have kept that going for another five seasons easily. And
Deadwood - don't get me started - lol...
i was disappointed when they ended Rome, but more than likely it was a budgetary
consideration. considering the costumes, sets, the hundreds of extras in
real
life roman soldier garb needed to authenticate the feel of ancient Rome,
it
probably cost boatloads of money to shoot that series and perhaps the reason
they pulled the plug.
it's much easier and cheaper to keep a contemporary show like 'entourage'
going.
after all it's a show about hollywood produced in hollywood. very economical.
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readyfireaim
2007-06-17 19:46:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Irish Mike
I watched the first episode of John from Cincinnati last Sunday and it
seemed kind of lame. A surfing show doesn't seem to compete with Rome,
Yeah, the more I see of it the more I think - no good can come from this. Yet
the everyday ordinariness of Entourage just cant compete with the
action\violence HBO has come to do so well as seen in the shows they're killing
off. Beuksux is probably right about the budget vs. ratings thing, just not
enough highbrows out here who can properly appreciate the realities of ancient
Roman life - lol..





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Irish Mike
2007-06-17 20:22:15 UTC
Permalink
I actually called the HBO consumer information office (which is an
experience in and of itself). They confirmed that Deadwood is finished.
Apparently no truth to the rumor that they were going to do some kind of
wrap up episode. Makes sense since David Milch has moved on to do "John
from Cincinnati". They said The Wire was coming back and the new season
would be shown starting in September. I took the opportunity to tell the
girl that, as a viewer, I thought the ending on the Sopranos sucked. She
yawned - literally.

Irish Mike
Post by readyfireaim
Post by Irish Mike
I watched the first episode of John from Cincinnati last Sunday and it
seemed kind of lame. A surfing show doesn't seem to compete with Rome,
Yeah, the more I see of it the more I think - no good can come from this. Yet
the everyday ordinariness of Entourage just cant compete with the
action\violence HBO has come to do so well as seen in the shows they're killing
off. Beuksux is probably right about the budget vs. ratings thing, just not
enough highbrows out here who can properly appreciate the realities of ancient
Roman life - lol..
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readyfireaim
2007-06-17 20:50:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Irish Mike
experience in and of itself). They confirmed that Deadwood is finished.
That's just wrong, yet as of late I feared as much - now that they've started
advertising the 3 season DVD set. That right their was a bad omen just here in
tha past few days. Sum-bitch... Thanks for the news though.
Post by Irish Mike
girl that, as a viewer, I thought the ending on the Sopranos sucked. She
yawned - literally.
Irish Mike
Ah, the joys of big-bidness... Sounds bout right.



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Irish Mike
2007-06-18 00:01:18 UTC
Permalink
Well I think the HBO original series shows are the best on TV. Based on
their huge commercial success I've no doubt HBO will continue to turn them
out. I just hope they maintain the level of quality. As for regular TV,
there is very little that I watch. High Stakes Poker and the World Poker
Tour - that's about it. I tried to watch "Lost" for a while but I got lost
trying to follow the contrived plot lines. I finally just gave up on the
whole silly mess last year.

Irish Mike
Post by readyfireaim
Post by Irish Mike
experience in and of itself). They confirmed that Deadwood is finished.
That's just wrong, yet as of late I feared as much - now that they've started
advertising the 3 season DVD set. That right their was a bad omen just here in
tha past few days. Sum-bitch... Thanks for the news though.
Post by Irish Mike
girl that, as a viewer, I thought the ending on the Sopranos sucked. She
yawned - literally.
Irish Mike
Ah, the joys of big-bidness... Sounds bout right.
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JerseyRudy
2007-06-15 19:36:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by KookieMonstr
http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/06/15/television.sopranos.reut/index.html
Post by KookieMonstr
LOS ANGELES, California (Reuters) -- Fans of "The Sopranos" are seizing on clues
suggesting the controversial blackout which abruptly ended the TV mob drama
meant that Tony Soprano was rubbed out, and HBO said Thursday they may be on to
something.
One clue in particular, a flashback in the penultimate episode to a conversation
between Tony and his brother-in-law about death, gained credence as an HBO
spokesman called it a "legitimate" hint and confirmed that series creator David
Chase had a definite ending in mind.
"While he won't say to me 100 percent what it all means, he says some people
who've guessed have come closer than others," HBO spokesman Quentin Schaffer
told Reuters after speaking to Chase.
"There are definitely things there that he intended for people to pick up on,"
Schaffer said. (javascript:cnnVideo( javascript:cnnVideo()
Chase himself suggested as much in an interview Tuesday with The Star-Ledger
newspaper of New Jersey when he said of his end to the HBO series, "Anyone who
wants to watch it, it's all there."
In the final moments of Sunday's concluding episode, Tony, the conflicted mob
boss who has just survived a round of gangland warfare, sits in a diner with his
family munching on onion rings as the 1980s song by rock band Journey, "Don't
Stop Believin'," blares from a juke box.
Tension builds as a suspicious man wearing a "Members Only" jacket eyes Tony
from a nearby counter before slipping into a restroom. Then, as Tony looks
toward the restaurant's entrance, the screen abruptly goes blank in mid-scene --
with no picture or sound for 10 seconds -- until the credits roll silently.
Stunned viewers, many initially believing something had gone wrong with their
cable TV reception, were left wondering whether Tony ended up "whacked" or
whether his sordid life went on as usual.
Even star James Gandolfini wasn't sure.
"You have to ask ('The Sopranos' creator) David Chase that. Smarter minds than
mine know the answer to that," Gandolfini told the New York Daily News. "I
thought it was a great ending. You decide."
The jarring, fill-in-the-blank finale, concluding a show widely hailed as
America's greatest television drama, sparked a furious debate about whether
Chase had conceived of an actual ending and whether he left the audience any
clues.
The biggest hint, according to a consensus taking shape on the Web, is a scene
from an earlier episode in which Tony and his brother-in-law, Bobby "Bacala"
Baccalieri, muse about what it feels like to die.
"At the end, you probably don't hear anything, everything just goes black,"
Bobby says while they sit fishing in a small boat on a lake.
That scene is recalled briefly in a flashback played at the end of the
penultimate "Sopranos" episode, as Tony is lying in the darkened room of a
safehouse clutching a machine gun to his chest in the midst of a mob war.
"I think that is one of the most legitimate things to look at," Schaffer said
when asked about theories that the Bobby Bacala flashback was meant to
foreshadow Tony's death.
Moreover, he said the man in the "Members Only" jacket could be interpreted as a
symbolic reference to membership in the mob. "Members Only" also was the title
of the episode in which Tony's demented Uncle Junior shoots him in the gut.
The "Members Only" guy was played by the owner of a real-life pizza parlor,
Paolo Colandrea. Schaffer denied reports that Colandrea had appeared earlier in
the series as the nephew of Tony's New York gang rival, or that there ever was
such a character. He also dismissed reports that Chase had filmed more than one
ending to the finale.
No, that's not the real answer. That's what you are supposed to think.
There's still money to be rung out of this franchise.
My guess is somebody died but it wasn't Tony. Probably a hit on Meadow to
punish Tony. There are clues. Remember when Tony said "don't worry, they
always leave the family members out of it."?
Keep searching for the "real answer" people.  Don't stop believing.  It goes on
and on and on and on...

On a related note, what is that smirk supposed to signify in the "Mona Lisa?"
I swear to god that she is trying to tell us something.


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Backslider23
2007-06-18 21:35:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by KookieMonstr
Damn, it took people a long time to see this... Fuckin told you....
http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/06/15/television.sopranos.reut/index.html
I'm personally not jumping on that bandwagon, no matter how much people
try to convince me.

I'm in the camp of people that liked the ending. I thought the way the
final scene was executed was really great. We all knew there were just
seconds left in the series, and the tension built up really well. Every
person in the diner was a potential hitman. What was going to happen?
Who was that coming in the door? Is Meadow's parking issue going to
result in some catastrophic timing? etc.

Then, the blackness. To me, it wasn't hitting a brick wall. It wasn't a
bullet in the head. It was jumping off the edge of a cliff into something
unknown. It was Tony's life. We left him in the same place we found him,
but with a totally different context. He's still just having dinner with
his family, but we have this understanding that every moment is dangerous.
Every loner at the counter, every group of young men that come through
the door could be the one. That's the consequence of his "job", and
that's just the way it is. You never know what the next moment is going
to bring.. even a sharp cut to black.

"I stop somewhere waiting for you."

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Backslider23
2007-06-20 03:18:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by KookieMonstr
Damn, it took people a long time to see this... Fuckin told you....
http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/06/15/television.sopranos.reut/index.html
...
Post by KookieMonstr
The biggest hint, according to a consensus taking shape on the Web, is a scene
from an earlier episode in which Tony and his brother-in-law, Bobby "Bacala"
Baccalieri, muse about what it feels like to die.
"At the end, you probably don't hear anything, everything just goes black,"
Bobby says while they sit fishing in a small boat on a lake.
That scene is recalled briefly in a flashback played at the end of the
penultimate "Sopranos" episode, as Tony is lying in the darkened room of a
safehouse clutching a machine gun to his chest in the midst of a mob war.
I call bullshit on this quote. I just went back and watched the episode,
and he never says this. He just says "You probably don't even hear it
when it happens".

I just checked the link you provided, and the article has been changed to
include the correct quote (or you purposefully misquoted it to begin
with). Either way, the actual quote isn't quite as convenient.

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