Discussion:
OT: Tatoos Revisited
(too old to reply)
b***@aol.com
2005-07-21 06:29:01 UTC
Permalink
Another genius with a tatoo was shot by police today in California.
They recognized him as a serial robber they've been seeking due to the
tatoo on his neck. It never ceased to amaze me these bozos keep
getting tatoos then commit crimes.

Barbara Gallamore
William Brandon
2005-07-21 06:49:38 UTC
Permalink
A buddy of mine who was a DA in San Joaquin County (Stockton, CA) used
to tell me stories of the idiots he was prosecuting. Invariably, I
would ask him how a guy/gal could be so stupid. His answer was that is
why they are criminals.
WB
Gary Carson
2005-07-21 09:41:32 UTC
Permalink
It's common for cops and prosecutors to think of criminals as stupid.

The reason is that it's only the stupid ones that they are able to catch and
convict. 

Since most crimes go unsolved it's not a stretch to conclude that your friend
has no idea who most of the criminals are and has no idea whether they're stupid
or not.

Gary Carson
Post by William Brandon
A buddy of mine who was a DA in San Joaquin County (Stockton, CA) used
to tell me stories of the idiots he was prosecuting. Invariably, I
would ask him how a guy/gal could be so stupid. His answer was that is
why they are criminals.
WB
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William Brandon
2005-07-21 16:55:59 UTC
Permalink
Gary,
While I love your posts and appreciate your responses (you recently
answered some questions for me that I had posed to you in a personal
email), your presumption to know what my friend is thinking is
ridiculous. Assuming you have limited law enforcement experience, I am
going to go with the guy that did something for a living every day for
8 years. Kind of like a new poker player telling you how to play a
poker hand.

I realize you are trying to stir the pot a bit but your contrary
response to issues wears thin.
On the lighter side, thanks again for you response to my game theory
question.

WB
Gary Carson
2005-07-21 20:25:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Brandon
Gary,
While I love your posts and appreciate your responses (you recently
answered some questions for me that I had posed to you in a personal
email), your presumption to know what my friend is thinking is
ridiculous. Assuming you have limited law enforcement experience, I am
going to go with the guy that did something for a living every day for
8 years. Kind of like a new poker player telling you how to play a
poker hand.
I published my first academic article on crime in the early 70's, published
another dozen or so over the next 20 years (mostly in 3rd rate academic
journals), have presented papers on criminal justice topics to a score of
national and regional meetings of academic societies of criminal justice,
criminology, corrections, math modeling, etc.  I  finished the coursework and
exams for a PhD in Criminal Justice and taught criminology at Sam Houston.

Plus I've been in jail a few more times than your friend.  He and I probably
took the same number of criminal law courses, although he may have taken more.

What your friend did for 8 years was put stupid people in prison.  Some where
guilty of crimes, some not.  If your friend thinks that he saw a representative
sample of criminals then your friend should have gone to a better school.  If he
doesn't think that then I he has no basis for his statement.

So, you're right, I don't know what your friend was thinking.  I assumed he was
just spouting off a conclusion using observations that didn't imply the
conclusion he reached.  But, it could be that he's just delusional and was
completely making up what he said.

Gary Carson


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kalony
2005-07-21 20:35:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary Carson
Post by William Brandon
Gary,
While I love your posts and appreciate your responses (you recently
answered some questions for me that I had posed to you in a personal
email), your presumption to know what my friend is thinking is
ridiculous. Assuming you have limited law enforcement experience, I am
going to go with the guy that did something for a living every day for
8 years. Kind of like a new poker player telling you how to play a
poker hand.
I published my first academic article on crime in the early 70's, published
another dozen or so over the next 20 years (mostly in 3rd rate academic
journals), have presented papers on criminal justice topics to a score of
national and regional meetings of academic societies of criminal justice,
criminology, corrections, math modeling, etc.  I  finished the coursework and
exams for a PhD in Criminal Justice and taught criminology at Sam Houston.
Plus I've been in jail a few more times than your friend.  He and I probably
took the same number of criminal law courses, although he may have taken more.
What your friend did for 8 years was put stupid people in prison.  Some where
guilty of crimes, some not.  If your friend thinks that he saw a representative
sample of criminals then your friend should have gone to a better school.  If he
doesn't think that then I he has no basis for his statement.
So, you're right, I don't know what your friend was thinking.  I assumed he was
just spouting off a conclusion using observations that didn't imply the
conclusion he reached.  But, it could be that he's just delusional and was
completely making up what he said.
Gary Carson
Oh, snap!
-
pitch 'em the funny one Robert!



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William Brandon
2005-07-22 01:51:38 UTC
Permalink
I stand corrected on my previous statement regarding your law
enforcement/criminal justice background. I am sure my friend is going
off his experiences as a DA. He dealt with a lot of drug users and
domestic violence cases (usually alcohol related) which surely clouds
ones judgement which could lead to the criminal activity. Given the
high volume of crime in Stockton, he probably saw cases that were
easiest to prosecute. He went to UCSF (which I consider good) so I am
not sure that is an issue. That said, I believe what we are exposed to
in life leads use to most of the conconclusions we make, rightly or
wrongly.
As for the tattoo issue, I cannot think of anything I would want
permanently on my body but that is my choice. In the end, a tattoo on
someone elses body affects me so little I cannot imagine caring one way
or the other.
WB
Gary Carson
2005-07-22 15:07:26 UTC
Permalink
There is an observed correlation between IQ and delinquency.   It's
statictically significant, but it's small compared to the correlation between
delinquency and low performance in school.

The implication being that the direct relationship is between school performance
and delinquency -- being stupid is just one of the paths to getting there, it's
not nessarily the main path or the most important one.

Criminals don't fit, they don't follow the same rules, they don't feel like they
belong to society.  Sometimes that's because they're stupid.  Sometimes that's
because they just don't think the ordinary rules apply to them.  Often it's not
that they're not smart, it's that they aren't as smart as they think they are. 

Alchohol is often a contributing factor and can make really smart people appear
to be really, really stupid.

It is, however, a central part of law enforcement folklore that the bad guys are
stupid.  Cops tell stories about stupid bad guys all the time, they even write
books of vignettes of stupid bad guys.  They are a staple of News of the Weird. 
We like stories about stupid bad guys.  It makes us all feel just that much
smarter (and a lot of cops have a need for that).

As an indication of how smart those attracted to law enforcement careers are --
it used to be that the lowest GRE scores for potential grad students who
declared majors was for education majors.  That's changed over the last 15 years
or so -- it's now criminal justice majors.  On any college campus you can find
the stupidist students in the criminal justice classes.

I taught economics for Lee College one semester to inmates of the Ellis II unit
in the Texas prison system.  It was a maximum security prison that at the time
housed death row.  My students where doing long sentences for stuff like armed
robbery, aggravated rape, murder, aggravated assualt, and other such stuff.  As
a group fairly bad ass guys.   Some of the best students I've ever taught were
in that class.

Gary Carson
Post by William Brandon
I stand corrected on my previous statement regarding your law
enforcement/criminal justice background. I am sure my friend is going
off his experiences as a DA. He dealt with a lot of drug users and
domestic violence cases (usually alcohol related) which surely clouds
ones judgement which could lead to the criminal activity. Given the
high volume of crime in Stockton, he probably saw cases that were
easiest to prosecute. He went to UCSF (which I consider good) so I am
not sure that is an issue. That said, I believe what we are exposed to
in life leads use to most of the conconclusions we make, rightly or
wrongly.
As for the tattoo issue, I cannot think of anything I would want
permanently on my body but that is my choice. In the end, a tattoo on
someone elses body affects me so little I cannot imagine caring one way
or the other.
WB
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Dragon Koi
2005-07-21 06:51:00 UTC
Permalink
Damn, in California. I wonder how many people they had to shoot before they
got the right one.

<***@aol.com> wrote in message news:***@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
| Another genius with a tatoo was shot by police today in California.
| They recognized him as a serial robber they've been seeking due to the
| tatoo on his neck. It never ceased to amaze me these bozos keep
| getting tatoos then commit crimes.
|
| Barbara Gallamore
|
Big Dave
2005-07-21 08:03:29 UTC
Permalink
Not that many Dragon, they will never miss em' in Cali..................

DB
Post by Dragon Koi
Damn, in California. I wonder how many people they had to shoot before they
got the right one.
| Another genius with a tatoo was shot by police today in California.
| They recognized him as a serial robber they've been seeking due to the
| tatoo on his neck. It never ceased to amaze me these bozos keep
| getting tatoos then commit crimes.
|
| Barbara Gallamore
|
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Howard Beale`
2005-07-21 09:41:15 UTC
Permalink
I started the tattoo discussion. This is the third thread. If
I add up the total posts of all three this may be my most
well-received topic.

Next stop: Weird hair styles and colors.

Howard Beale

"I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!"

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Bob W
2005-07-21 16:15:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@aol.com
Another genius with a tatoo was shot by police today in California.
They recognized him as a serial robber they've been seeking due to the
tatoo on his neck. It never ceased to amaze me these bozos keep
getting tatoos then commit crimes.
Barbara Gallamore
You wouldn't expect anyone with a brain to get a tattoo would you?
Bob
2005-07-21 16:23:21 UTC
Permalink
Bob W suggested:

"You wouldn't expect anyone with a brain to get a tattoo would you?"

Now you sound like my grandfather in the 60's: "Why don't you get a
haircut?" "Young people today, they just don't dress appropriately."

Times change, gramps - people don't always do things the way they did
when you were young.

- Bob
Gary Carson
2005-07-21 20:56:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
"You wouldn't expect anyone with a brain to get a tattoo would you?"
Now you sound like my grandfather in the 60's: "Why don't you get a
haircut?" "Young people today, they just don't dress appropriately."
In 1967 myself and a friend stopped at a beer joint along the hiway outside of
Denham Springs, Lousiana.  By today's standards my hair was short, by the
standards in Klan Kountry in 1967, well.

Joe and I sat at one end of the bar and ordered two beers.  As the barmaid
handed us the bottles one of a handfull of middle aged guys at the other end of
the bar said, "Where you boys from?".

"Baton Rouge", I said.

Another guy said, "Ain't they got no barbershops in Baton Rouge?"  He said it
very slowly.

I had my hand wrapped around the beer bottle but hadn't taken even one sip yet. 
I turned to Joe and said softly, "You ready to go?"

"Let's go", he said.

We quickly and quietly left.

Gary Carson
Post by Bob
Times change, gramps - people don't always do things the way they did
when you were young.
- Bob
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OrangeSFO
2005-07-21 21:03:34 UTC
Permalink
Didn't I see that very scene in "Easy Rider"?
brewmaster
2005-07-21 21:35:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary Carson
Post by Bob
"You wouldn't expect anyone with a brain to get a tattoo would you?"
Now you sound like my grandfather in the 60's: "Why don't you get a
haircut?" "Young people today, they just don't dress appropriately."
In 1967 myself and a friend stopped at a beer joint along the hiway outside of
Denham Springs, Lousiana.  By today's standards my hair was short, by the
standards in Klan Kountry in 1967, well.
Joe and I sat at one end of the bar and ordered two beers.  As the barmaid
handed us the bottles one of a handfull of middle aged guys at the other end of
the bar said, "Where you boys from?".
"Baton Rouge", I said.
Another guy said, "Ain't they got no barbershops in Baton Rouge?"  He said it
very slowly.
I had my hand wrapped around the beer bottle but hadn't taken even one sip yet. 
I turned to Joe and said softly, "You ready to go?"
"Let's go", he said.
We quickly and quietly left.
I'm having visions of the final scene in EasyRider.
Post by Gary Carson
Gary Carson
Post by Bob
Times change, gramps - people don't always do things the way they did
when you were young.
- Bob
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Travel
2005-07-22 15:23:30 UTC
Permalink
=A0 As the barmaid handed us the bottles one of a handfull of middle
aged guys at the other end of the bar said, "Where you boys from?".

"Baton Rouge", I said.

Another guy said, "Ain't they got no barbershops in Baton Rouge?"=A0 He
said it
very slowly.

I had my hand wrapped around the beer bottle but hadn't taken even one
sip yet.=A0 I turned to Joe and said softly, "You ready to go?"

"Let's go", he said.

We quickly and quietly left.

Gary Carson

........................................................

And, that, my friends, is how Gary Carson first met Peg Smith.

You see, as Gary was amused to find out years later that, the "other
guy" was actually Peg.

Ohhh, they went to be very good friends, posting on RGP, e-mailing each
funny insults to spring on the unsuspecting. Well, you know the
rest...it's heart warming, really.
Jack K
2005-07-21 22:49:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
"You wouldn't expect anyone with a brain to get a tattoo would you?"
Now you sound like my grandfather in the 60's: "Why don't you get a
haircut?" "Young people today, they just don't dress appropriately."
Times change, gramps - people don't always do things the way they did
when you were young.
- Bob
Sorry Bob, Lots of intelligent young people don't get tattoos and lots
of stupid older people have them. You can't tell exactly what
they're supposed to be any more, but they have them.
metallifried
2005-07-21 16:34:47 UTC
Permalink
Lots of people with brains have tattoos. It's getting a tattoo on your
neck that shows a serious lack of judgment.
Peg Smith
2005-07-21 18:05:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob W
You wouldn't expect anyone with a brain to get a tattoo would you?
It isn't any sillier than poking holes in our bodies so that we can
put ornamentation into them; or smoking; or getting fat.

Most people have founds ways to mutilate their bodies, but tattoos and
piercings aren't nearly as destructive as other ways we fuck ourselves
up.

Peg
OrangeSFO
2005-07-21 19:03:36 UTC
Permalink
I'm just sorry that it seems there isn't a woman under 35 left in
America without a tatoo on her ass (excuse me--"lower back").
Raider Fan
2005-07-22 10:38:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by OrangeSFO
I'm just sorry that it seems there isn't a woman under 35 left in
America without a tatoo on her ass (excuse me--"lower back").
I like them. I also like the little ones on their ankle.

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Jack King
2005-07-22 01:27:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peg Smith
It isn't any sillier than poking holes in our bodies so that we can
put ornamentation into them; or smoking; or getting fat.
<snip>
Post by Peg Smith
Peg
Exactly, and just so long as you can find someone sillier or more
stupid than you are then everything is just fine.
kalony
2005-07-21 18:46:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob W
Post by b***@aol.com
Another genius with a tatoo was shot by police today in California.
They recognized him as a serial robber they've been seeking due to the
tatoo on his neck. It never ceased to amaze me these bozos keep
getting tatoos then commit crimes.
Barbara Gallamore
You wouldn't expect anyone with a brain to get a tattoo would you?
The cover of a recent Mensa bulletin was graced by a member covered from neck to
waist in tattoos.  How about that...
-
pitch 'em the funny one Robert!



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Pocket2s
2005-07-22 01:32:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by kalony
Post by Bob W
Post by b***@aol.com
Another genius with a tatoo was shot by police today in California.
They recognized him as a serial robber they've been seeking due to the
tatoo on his neck. It never ceased to amaze me these bozos keep
getting tatoos then commit crimes.
Barbara Gallamore
You wouldn't expect anyone with a brain to get a tattoo would you?
The cover of a recent Mensa bulletin was graced by a member covered from neck to
waist in tattoos. How about that...
Guess he wasn't as smart as previously thought.................
Peg Smith
2005-07-22 03:10:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pocket2s
Post by kalony
The cover of a recent Mensa bulletin was graced by a member covered from neck to
waist in tattoos. How about that...
Guess he wasn't as smart as previously thought.................
It's a woman. By most people's standards, she was very attractive,
too.

As I said, we have many, many ways to fuck up our bodies that are far
more destructive than tattoos.

Peg
FL Turbo
2005-07-22 04:25:06 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 22:10:40 -0500, Peg Smith
Post by Peg Smith
Post by Pocket2s
Post by kalony
The cover of a recent Mensa bulletin was graced by a member covered from neck to
waist in tattoos. How about that...
Guess he wasn't as smart as previously thought.................
It's a woman. By most people's standards, she was very attractive,
too.
As I said, we have many, many ways to fuck up our bodies that are far
more destructive than tattoos.
Peg
For example?

Drugs come to mind.
I won't argue that point if it's what you have in mind.
Peg Smith
2005-07-22 05:21:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by FL Turbo
Post by Peg Smith
As I said, we have many, many ways to fuck up our bodies that are far
more destructive than tattoos.
Peg
For example?
Drugs come to mind.
I won't argue that point if it's what you have in mind.
Yep. Drugs, booze, obesity, sugars (diabetes), physical sports
(football comes to mind, as well as mountain-climbing, deep-sea
diving, skateboarding, etc.). Hell, drugs and booze have devastated
families. I've never heard of a tattoo or a body piercing wreaking
havoc on anybody's loved ones.

Get a grip, folks. Who gives a shit if somebody wants a tattoo or two,
or a hundred? The effect they have on society is exactly...zilch.

Peg
Gary Carson
2005-07-22 12:56:24 UTC
Permalink
On 21 Jul 2005 18:32:11 -0700, "Pocket2s"
Post by Pocket2s
Post by kalony
The cover of a recent Mensa bulletin was graced by a member covered from neck to
waist in tattoos. How about that...
Guess he wasn't as smart as previously thought.................
It's a woman. By most people's standards, she was very attractive,
too.
As I said, we have many, many ways to fuck up our bodies that are far
more destructive than tattoos.
Peg
I had a friend in college who joined mensa as a way to meet women.

Gary Carson

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FL Turbo
2005-07-22 03:33:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pocket2s
Post by kalony
Post by Bob W
Post by b***@aol.com
Another genius with a tatoo was shot by police today in California.
They recognized him as a serial robber they've been seeking due to the
tatoo on his neck. It never ceased to amaze me these bozos keep
getting tatoos then commit crimes.
Barbara Gallamore
You wouldn't expect anyone with a brain to get a tattoo would you?
The cover of a recent Mensa bulletin was graced by a member covered from neck to
waist in tattoos. How about that...
Guess he wasn't as smart as previously thought.................
Shows that smart and weird aren't mutually exclusive.

I wonder if any of his Mensa associates pointed out that he could get
the same effect by wearing a sign.
"Look at me - I'm weird"

That would save a whole lot of time, pain and money.

I suppose his Mensa associates were too busy telling each other how
smart they are.
Peg Smith
2005-07-22 05:29:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by FL Turbo
Post by Pocket2s
Guess he wasn't as smart as previously thought.................
Shows that smart and weird aren't mutually exclusive.
Of course they aren't. The problem is that too many people think
"weird" is synonymous with "wrong" and that "conventional" is
synonymous with "just the way it should be and we're going to look
down on you if you don't stick with the program".
Post by FL Turbo
I wonder if any of his Mensa associates pointed out that he could get
the same effect by wearing a sign.
"Look at me - I'm weird"
Uh...that would be "she". It was a woman.

Turbo, I'd gotten the impression that you weren't one of the sheeple
who judged people so harshly. Boy, was I wrong. It looks as if you're
just another of the "what will the neighbors say" crowd. Tsk.
Post by FL Turbo
That would save a whole lot of time, pain and money.
I suppose his Mensa associates were too busy telling each other how
smart they are.
Mensa doesn't work that way.

Peg
FL Turbo
2005-07-22 12:51:46 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 00:29:31 -0500, Peg Smith
Post by Peg Smith
Post by FL Turbo
Post by Pocket2s
Guess he wasn't as smart as previously thought.................
Shows that smart and weird aren't mutually exclusive.
Of course they aren't. The problem is that too many people think
"weird" is synonymous with "wrong" and that "conventional" is
synonymous with "just the way it should be and we're going to look
down on you if you don't stick with the program".
My thoughts were along the lines of weird meaning strange or highly
unusual, etc.
Not along the lines of being right or wrong.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Post by Peg Smith
Post by FL Turbo
I wonder if any of his Mensa associates pointed out that he could get
the same effect by wearing a sign.
"Look at me - I'm weird"
Uh...that would be "she". It was a woman.
Oh.
A weird woman then.
Post by Peg Smith
Turbo, I'd gotten the impression that you weren't one of the sheeple
who judged people so harshly. Boy, was I wrong. It looks as if you're
just another of the "what will the neighbors say" crowd. Tsk.
I'm one of those people who aren't afraid to be judgmental.
I retain my Constitutional Right to point and say "That's weird"
If my neighbors agree with me it's OK, but it isn't necessary.

That fits right in with the VRWC philosophy of not simply accepting
anything and everything to avoid being labeled "judgmental".

Or to bring in that old exhortation:
Don't be so open minded that you let your brains fall out.
Post by Peg Smith
Post by FL Turbo
That would save a whole lot of time, pain and money.
I suppose his Mensa associates were too busy telling each other how
smart they are.
Mensa doesn't work that way.
Could be.
All I know about Mensa is what I read.
GotBonus?
2005-07-23 10:53:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by kalony
Post by Bob W
Post by b***@aol.com
Another genius with a tatoo was shot by police today in California.
They recognized him as a serial robber they've been seeking due to the
tatoo on his neck. It never ceased to amaze me these bozos keep
getting tatoos then commit crimes.
Barbara Gallamore
You wouldn't expect anyone with a brain to get a tattoo would you?
The cover of a recent Mensa bulletin was graced by a member covered from neck to
waist in tattoos. How about that...
Recently a player in a 3/6 game, while trying to impress us as an
intelectual superior state that he was in fact a member of "Menstra"

No joke.
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Deposit bonus code information for the top poker rooms on the internet.
$25 to $600 added at Partypoker, Full Tilt Poker and Empire Poker.
Details at http://www.GotBonus.com
Post by kalony
pitch 'em the funny one Robert!
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allfyre
2005-07-21 19:17:05 UTC
Permalink
I am a senior-level software engineer with tattoos on nearly half of my
body. As such, I find that comment kind of offensive. Oh well, what
can you expect? People always want to look down on anything that they
percieve as different from themselves. I suppose it wouldn't do any
good to point out that people from nearly all cultures through the ages
have been found with tattoos, that it it one of the oldest "surgical"
procedures known and that as a practice it has it's roots in mankind's
earliest artistic impulses. No, of course not. Because you don't have
one I guess everybody who does is somehow beneath you. You sir, are a
dick.
Bob W
2005-07-22 01:47:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by allfyre
I am a senior-level software engineer with tattoos on nearly half of my
body. As such, I find that comment kind of offensive. Oh well, what
can you expect? People always want to look down on anything that they
percieve as different from themselves. I suppose it wouldn't do any
good to point out that people from nearly all cultures through the ages
have been found with tattoos, that it it one of the oldest "surgical"
procedures known and that as a practice it has it's roots in mankind's
earliest artistic impulses. No, of course not. Because you don't have
one I guess everybody who does is somehow beneath you. You sir, are a
dick.
Maybe I am, but based on your description, you sir, are ugly.
allfyre
2005-07-22 04:37:00 UTC
Permalink
What, you don't like art?
Jack K
2005-07-22 05:46:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by allfyre
What, you don't like art?
I love art. Mutilation and self-disfigurement not so much.
allfyre
2005-07-22 14:25:12 UTC
Permalink
Hell, I'm not mutilitated or disfigured, just a little pigmented.
igotskillz com
2005-07-24 18:02:02 UTC
Permalink
DE PLANE BOSS, DE PLANE





Thank YOU

www.igotskillz.com

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