what we can do to WPO's tournament fee cheating?

[Zelong Dong]

I just canceled my reservation and the trip.
I just noticed that after I read Howard L's post here. Except the front
fee, they also deducts a big chunk from the prize. for example, in the
$1000+60 tournament which has 140 players, they not only just take the $60
from everyone, they also cut another 13% from the $140,000 prize pool! so
this tournament is actually a $870+190, the real charge is close to 22%!!
That is way too greedy. as player, if we do nothing, I wonder other casino
will do the similar thing, that will be a disaster for tournament poker.
what do you think?

_________________________________________________________________
Posted using RecPoker.com - http://www.recpoker.com

[HoldemPoker12]

I only hope that Mississippi Gaming Commission finds this unacceptable so that
I can get something more back for my placing in the tourney.
Though I doubt anything will happen.There just doesn't seem to be very much
outrage even here at RGP


Subject: what we can do to WPO's tournament fee cheating?

Date: 1/23/2004 10:28 PM Central

[NewGCA]

We have a team of mathematicians working on this. OK, we're paying a geek
over at www.twoplustwo.com fifty bucks, and we have determined it is a
negative EV event and about a 7.11 on the NewGCA scam meter, which is
quite high. We have decided not to send our cheating pack. They're busy
playing somewhere else, anyway.

Russ Nguyen,
Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam

Post by Zelong Dong
I just canceled my reservation and the trip.
I just noticed that after I read Howard L's post here. Except the front
fee, they also deducts a big chunk from the prize. for example, in the
$1000+60 tournament which has 140 players, they not only just take the $60
from everyone, they also cut another 13% from the $140,000 prize pool! so
this tournament is actually a $870+190, the real charge is close to 22%!!
That is way too greedy. as player, if we do nothing, I wonder other casino
will do the similar thing, that will be a disaster for tournament poker.
what do you think?

_________________________________________________________________
Posted using RecPoker.com - http://www.recpoker.com

[lvdlrs]

Zelong, here is what is happening with the tournament prize pools.
Yes the house keeps the vig, so the $1000 + $60, the vig is the $60.
In the non stud tournaments they are taking $10,200 off the top and
putting the winner into the Final Championship Event. They are
taking out a well advertised 3% for the tournament dealers and staff
and have done so since the inception of the WPO. What is now
happening that hasn't in the past is that the State of Mississippi
is taking out 3% also. That doesn't go to the Horseshoe or the
Gold Strike. Sorry you cancelled your trip. I know you've made
reservations here before. However it is not as you first thought.
The Horseshoe and Gold Strike are not taking all the money.

Gary (G-man) Philips

Post by Zelong Dong
I just canceled my reservation and the trip.
I just noticed that after I read Howard L's post here. Except the front
fee, they also deducts a big chunk from the prize. for example, in the
$1000+60 tournament which has 140 players, they not only just take the $60
from everyone, they also cut another 13% from the $140,000 prize pool! so
this tournament is actually a $870+190, the real charge is close to 22%!!
That is way too greedy. as player, if we do nothing, I wonder other casino
will do the similar thing, that will be a disaster for tournament poker.
what do you think?
_________________________________________________________________
Posted using RecPoker.com - http://www.recpoker.com

[DennyLynch]

Post by Zelong Dong
this tournament is actually a $870+190, the real charge is close to 22%!!

190/1060 = .22?

[Diane from Green Bay]

Post by lvdlrs
Zelong, here is what is happening with the tournament prize pools.
Yes the house keeps the vig, so the $1000 + $60, the vig is the $60.
In the non stud tournaments they are taking $10,200 off the top and
putting the winner into the Final Championship Event. They are
taking out a well advertised 3% for the tournament dealers and staff
and have done so since the inception of the WPO. What is now
happening that hasn't in the past is that the State of Mississippi
is taking out 3% also. That doesn't go to the Horseshoe or the
Gold Strike. Sorry you cancelled your trip. I know you've made
reservations here before. However it is not as you first thought.
The Horseshoe and Gold Strike are not taking all the money.
Gary (G-man) Philips

I am not a "name" player, but I do go to most of the big tourneys each
year and have done so for several years. At the big tourneys, the
"name" players are always accomodated from what I have seen at any
event. Special priveleges, special rooms, transportation, etc.
What's important to me though as I make my choices on which events to
attend, is how we as recreational players are taken care of at these
events.

What is different IMO, is that at the WPO, EVERYONE is well cared for,
treated with respect and extra effort goes into food comps, player
buffet right across from the ballroom with access for anyone who asks
the floor, and great southern hospitality. Games are spread and kept
filled and staff is always looking to do something to make you more
comfortable.

What I have seen after multiple competitions across the United States,
Commerce, Bicycle, Foxwoods, WPC, WSOP (pre-Becky), is that, (again
IMO) the WPO staff does the BEST a great job of taking care of all the
players in terms of room rates, players buffet,....just everything.

It is the event that I wait all year to attend.

The tournament information in terms of entry fees, vig, extra charges
etc. was always part of their ads and information sheets available.
How these fees and tournament charges became "cheating" on this
newgroup is just beyond me. Well, not beyond me, I guess, since there
is always a complaint about something,somewhere here. But this is
patently unfair to the Horseshoe Tunica and GoldStrike.

What other full casinos (not just the CA cardrooms) have demonstrated
to us poker players that they value our business?

To me, it seems very important for us players to show Harrah's as the
new owners how much we value the Binion's Horseshoe style of placing
value on poker players. Stop complaining and support the WPO,
Horseshoe and Gold Strike since year in and year out, they show many
ways how much they value our business.

Diane

[PrestoET]

Post by Diane from Green Bay

Post by lvdlrs
Zelong, here is what is happening with the tournament prize pools.
Yes the house keeps the vig, so the $1000 + $60, the vig is the $60.
In the non stud tournaments they are taking $10,200 off the top and
putting the winner into the Final Championship Event. They are
taking out a well advertised 3% for the tournament dealers and staff
and have done so since the inception of the WPO. What is now
happening that hasn't in the past is that the State of Mississippi
is taking out 3% also. That doesn't go to the Horseshoe or the
Gold Strike. Sorry you cancelled your trip. I know you've made
reservations here before. However it is not as you first thought.
The Horseshoe and Gold Strike are not taking all the money.
Gary (G-man) Philips

I am not a "name" player, but I do go to most of the big tourneys each
year and have done so for several years. At the big tourneys, the
"name" players are always accomodated from what I have seen at any
event. Special priveleges, special rooms, transportation, etc.
What's important to me though as I make my choices on which events to
attend, is how we as recreational players are taken care of at these
events.
What is different IMO, is that at the WPO, EVERYONE is well cared for,
treated with respect and extra effort goes into food comps, player
buffet right across from the ballroom with access for anyone who asks
the floor, and great southern hospitality. Games are spread and kept
filled and staff is always looking to do something to make you more
comfortable.
What I have seen after multiple competitions across the United States,
Commerce, Bicycle, Foxwoods, WPC, WSOP (pre-Becky), is that, (again
IMO) the WPO staff does the BEST a great job of taking care of all the
players in terms of room rates, players buffet,....just everything.
It is the event that I wait all year to attend.
The tournament information in terms of entry fees, vig, extra charges
etc. was always part of their ads and information sheets available.
How these fees and tournament charges became "cheating" on this
newgroup is just beyond me. Well, not beyond me, I guess, since there
is always a complaint about something,somewhere here. But this is
patently unfair to the Horseshoe Tunica and GoldStrike.
What other full casinos (not just the CA cardrooms) have demonstrated
to us poker players that they value our business?
To me, it seems very important for us players to show Harrah's as the
new owners how much we value the Binion's Horseshoe style of placing
value on poker players. Stop complaining and support the WPO,
Horseshoe and Gold Strike since year in and year out, they show many
ways how much they value our business.
Diane

Diane,

You could not be more wrong about this, I am suprised at you!
When the players get ripped off, we are not valued customers.
I usually agree with you but a rip off is a rip off now matter who is
taking it from your pocket.

I know you are more concerned with the social aspect and being treated
well and all but don't defend Vig on top of VIG on top of VIG.
You look silly doing it.

ET

[howardbeal1]

Post by lvdlrs
Zelong, here is what is happening with the tournament prize pools.
Yes the house keeps the vig, so the $1000 + $60, the vig is the $60.
In the non stud tournaments they are taking $10,200 off the top and
putting the winner into the Final Championship Event. They are
taking out a well advertised 3% for the tournament dealers and staff
and have done so since the inception of the WPO. What is now
happening that hasn't in the past is that the State of Mississippi
is taking out 3% also. That doesn't go to the Horseshoe or the
Gold Strike. Sorry you cancelled your trip. I know you've made
reservations here before. However it is not as you first thought.
The Horseshoe and Gold Strike are not taking all the money.
Gary (G-man) Philips

0
I'd always heard that this was a great tournament and a very
hospitable place to play. I decided that next year it was a "must" to
attend esp. since some friends have moved there and I can stay with
them. I may still go but only to play side games. If this is the
way the tournament is going to be they can count me out.

Howard Beal

"I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore!"

Post by lvdlrs

Post by Zelong Dong
_________________________________________________________________
Posted using RecPoker.com - http://www.recpoker.com

[Diane from Green Bay]

Post by howardbeal1
I'd always heard that this was a great tournament and a very
hospitable place to play.

It IS! It IS!



I decided that next year it was a "must" to

Post by howardbeal1
attend esp. since some friends have moved there and I can stay with
them. I may still go but only to play side games. If this is the
way the tournament is going to be they can count me out.
Howard Beal

If you don't like the vig structure of the tourneys, that's your
choice. But don't let that stop you from experiencing one of the best
poker deals around. Play the side games and have fun!

I hope to see you there next year.

Diane

[jimpepper]

Post by lvdlrs
Zelong, here is what is happening with the tournament prize pools.
Yes the house keeps the vig, so the $1000 + $60, the vig is the $60.
In the non stud tournaments they are taking $10,200 off the top and
putting the winner into the Final Championship Event. They are
taking out a well advertised 3% for the tournament dealers and staff
and have done so since the inception of the WPO.

What is now

Post by lvdlrs
happening that hasn't in the past is that the State of Mississippi
is taking out 3% also.

What kind of tax/fee is that?
Is that even legal? When do they start cutting pots too?
jim





That doesn't go to the Horseshoe or the

Post by lvdlrs
Gold Strike. Sorry you cancelled your trip. I know you've made
reservations here before. However it is not as you first thought.
The Horseshoe and Gold Strike are not taking all the money.
Gary (G-man) Philips

Post by Zelong Dong
I just canceled my reservation and the trip.
I just noticed that after I read Howard L's post here. Except the front
fee, they also deducts a big chunk from the prize. for example, in the
$1000+60 tournament which has 140 players, they not only just take the $60
from everyone, they also cut another 13% from the $140,000 prize pool! so
this tournament is actually a $870+190, the real charge is close to 22%!!
That is way too greedy. as player, if we do nothing, I wonder other casino
will do the similar thing, that will be a disaster for tournament poker.
what do you think?

_________________________________________________________________
Posted using RecPoker.com - http://www.recpoker.com

[Henry Estes]

jimpepper wrote...

Post by lvdlrs

Post by lvdlrs
Zelong, here is what is happening with the tournament prize pools.
Yes the house keeps the vig, so the $1000 + $60, the vig is the $60.
In the non stud tournaments they are taking $10,200 off the top and
putting the winner into the Final Championship Event. They are
taking out a well advertised 3% for the tournament dealers and staff
and have done so since the inception of the WPO.

What is now

Post by lvdlrs
happening that hasn't in the past is that the State of Mississippi
is taking out 3% also.

What kind of tax/fee is that?
Is that even legal? When do they start cutting pots too?
jim

http://tinyurl.com/2n6sd

MS requires, according to the above link, that 3% is to be withheld on gaming
winnings that are required to be reported to the IRS. I asked Gary if the
winnings were being reported to the IRS and he has yet to respond.

[the pickle]

Post by Henry Estes
jimpepper wrote...

Post by lvdlrs

Post by lvdlrs
Zelong, here is what is happening with the tournament prize pools.
Yes the house keeps the vig, so the $1000 + $60, the vig is the $60.
In the non stud tournaments they are taking $10,200 off the top and
putting the winner into the Final Championship Event. They are
taking out a well advertised 3% for the tournament dealers and staff
and have done so since the inception of the WPO.

What is now

Post by lvdlrs
happening that hasn't in the past is that the State of Mississippi
is taking out 3% also.

What kind of tax/fee is that?
Is that even legal? When do they start cutting pots too?
jim

http://tinyurl.com/2n6sd
MS requires, according to the above link, that 3% is to be withheld on gaming
winnings that are required to be reported to the IRS. I asked Gary if the
winnings were being reported to the IRS and he has yet to respond.

I would like to know too. I was in the money at Tunica ... Seniors
Tournament ... and had the 3% withheld, but received no 1099 or W9 or
anything else. Actually, I was told it would "not" be reported. Who really
knows?

[lvdlrs]

Post by Henry Estes
http://tinyurl.com/2n6sd
MS requires, according to the above link, that 3% is to be withheld on gaming
winnings that are required to be reported to the IRS. I asked Gary if the
winnings were being reported to the IRS and he has yet to respond.

I've not seen the post where you asked me before reading this here.
The Horseshoe and Gold Strike are fighting to get this tax eliminated.
In fact I know that Brent Carter, a regular tournament player, is also
trying to do just that.

I have been doing the super satellites this year and not been involved
with the tournaments. However I'm 90% sure we are not reporting these
to the IRS.

Gary (G-man) Philips

[Henry Estes]

lvdlrs wrote...

Post by lvdlrs

Post by Henry Estes
http://tinyurl.com/2n6sd
MS requires, according to the above link, that 3% is to be withheld on gaming
winnings that are required to be reported to the IRS. I asked Gary if the
winnings were being reported to the IRS and he has yet to respond.

I've not seen the post where you asked me before reading this here.
The Horseshoe and Gold Strike are fighting to get this tax eliminated.
In fact I know that Brent Carter, a regular tournament player, is also
trying to do just that.
I have been doing the super satellites this year and not been involved
with the tournaments. However I'm 90% sure we are not reporting these
to the IRS.
Gary (G-man) Philips

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I'm sure you've been busy. A great turnout
for the WPO and I suspect the supers contributed significantly to those numbers.

[JD]

Post by Zelong Dong
I just canceled my reservation and the trip.
I just noticed that after I read Howard L's post here. Except the front
fee, they also deducts a big chunk from the prize. for example, in the
$1000+60 tournament which has 140 players, they not only just take the $60
from everyone, they also cut another 13% from the $140,000 prize pool! so
this tournament is actually a $870+190, the real charge is close to 22%!!
That is way too greedy. as player, if we do nothing, I wonder other casino
will do the similar thing, that will be a disaster for tournament poker.
what do you think?

I thought it was 3%. Hope you didn't cancel your trip based on a typo or something.