Discussion:
OT : Happy Birthday, Milton Friedman!
(too old to reply)
mo_ntresor
2012-07-31 12:43:49 UTC
Permalink
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444226904577558882802335216.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop

"I remember asking Milton, a year or so before his death, during one of
our semiannual dinners in downtown San Francisco: What can we do to make
America more prosperous? "Three things," he replied instantly. "Promote
free trade, school choice for all children, and cut government spending."

How much should we cut? "As much as possible."


how on earth did this embarrassment of a president survived hyde park?

mo_ntresor
ChrisRobin
2012-07-31 23:28:22 UTC
Permalink
On Jul 31 2012 8:43 AM, mo_ntresor wrote:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444226904577558882802335216.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop
Post by mo_ntresor
"I remember asking Milton, a year or so before his death, during one of
our semiannual dinners in downtown San Francisco: What can we do to make
America more prosperous? "Three things," he replied instantly. "Promote
free trade, school choice for all children, and cut government spending."
How much should we cut? "As much as possible."
That sounds like ol' Milt, all right – quick to offer bumper-sticker
soundbites, but fuzzy on actual specifics (because usually the steps
necessary to achieve his privatized "free market" nirvana required the
exact opposite of his purported theories, including stacking government,
academic, and policy payrolls with Friedman disciples, who then proceeded
to spend their countries into debt-oblivion so their economies could be
strip-mined by private corporate interests for pennies on the dollar).

Happy birthday to grand hypocrisy! Somebody fetch me a party hat.
popinjay999
2012-08-01 00:44:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by ChrisRobin
Somebody fetch me a party hat.
Just stick with the clown suit that you're already wearing.
ChrisRobin
2012-08-01 16:44:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by popinjay999
Post by ChrisRobin
Somebody fetch me a party hat.
Just stick with the clown suit that you're already wearing.
Touche, douche.
FL Turbo
2012-08-01 01:03:19 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 31 Jul 2012 16:28:22 -0700, "ChrisRobin"
Post by mo_ntresor
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444226904577558882802335216.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop
Post by mo_ntresor
"I remember asking Milton, a year or so before his death, during one of
our semiannual dinners in downtown San Francisco: What can we do to make
America more prosperous? "Three things," he replied instantly. "Promote
free trade, school choice for all children, and cut government spending."
How much should we cut? "As much as possible."
That sounds like ol' Milt, all right – quick to offer bumper-sticker
soundbites, but fuzzy on actual specifics (because usually the steps
necessary to achieve his privatized "free market" nirvana required the
exact opposite of his purported theories, including stacking government,
academic, and policy payrolls with Friedman disciples, who then proceeded
to spend their countries into debt-oblivion so their economies could be
strip-mined by private corporate interests for pennies on the dollar).
Happy birthday to grand hypocrisy! Somebody fetch me a party hat.
You're a real hoot, Chris Robin.
Go watch the video I posted and then come back and tell me about all
those "bumper sticker soundbites".

I fear you are one of the people who don't have the attention span
required to absorb any more than one of the current soundbites that
the Media delivers.

Whatever you do, keep a damp cloth handy.
ChrisRobin
2012-08-01 16:43:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by FL Turbo
You're a real hoot, Chris Robin.
Go watch the video I posted and then come back and tell me about all
those "bumper sticker soundbites".
I'm perfectly aware of Friedman's philosophies going back to the '50s, I
don't need the Donahue-spin. Let's get one thing perfectly clear up front:
Friedman's primary function during the important (latter) phases of his
career was as an imperial propagandist, NOT as an economist.
Post by FL Turbo
I fear you are one of the people who don't have the attention span
required to absorb any more than one of the current soundbites that
the Media delivers.
Lol @ Turbo opining about attention spans. My opinion of Friedman is based
on the actual track record of policies he's championed all over the globe.
I've like, read about them, in detail and stuff. Reality, not gum-flapping
nonsense on a TV talk show that catered to housewives (lol).

Believe it or not, I do believe in some conservative/libertarian economic
principles, and many of the things that Friedman has said over the years
make a lot of sense. My issue with the guy is that his actual policies, in
action, are the 180 degree opposite of his rhetoric. You need look no
further than the places his policies have had the most impact – Latin
America – to see that he's a disingenuous fraud. Every single one of his
"success" stories involved MASSIVE government intervention, both domestic
and foreign, into the economies in question, and they all had the same
outcome: complete destruction of the public sector, enrichment for the
global corporations that had no interest in the well being of the native
populations, and the abject impoverishment of everyone not connected to
the ruling elites who had basically sold out their own nations. All the
bullshit he's espoused about "freedom" for decades belies the fact that in
just about every case, his "reforms" have been accompanied by totalitarian
regimes that regularly imprisoned, tortured and killed people who dared
oppose these society-crushing policies. His philosophies were so
destructive and unpopular that they literally required the brute force of
government oppression in order to make them stick. Pretty stark contrast
to the freedom-loving persona he presented on the TV, eh?

I imagine you're unaware of this history, because instead of educating
yourself, you've been sitting around watching Donahue re-runs all day
long. IF YOU DON'T KNOW, DON'T POST.
mo_ntresor
2012-08-01 16:52:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by ChrisRobin
Post by FL Turbo
You're a real hoot, Chris Robin.
Go watch the video I posted and then come back and tell me about all
those "bumper sticker soundbites".
I'm perfectly aware of Friedman's philosophies going back to the '50s, I
Friedman's primary function during the important (latter) phases of his
career was as an imperial propagandist, NOT as an economist.
Post by FL Turbo
I fear you are one of the people who don't have the attention span
required to absorb any more than one of the current soundbites that
the Media delivers.
on the actual track record of policies he's championed all over the globe.
I've like, read about them, in detail and stuff. Reality, not gum-flapping
nonsense on a TV talk show that catered to housewives (lol).
Believe it or not, I do believe in some conservative/libertarian economic
principles, and many of the things that Friedman has said over the years
make a lot of sense. My issue with the guy is that his actual policies, in
action, are the 180 degree opposite of his rhetoric. You need look no
further than the places his policies have had the most impact – Latin
America – to see that he's a disingenuous fraud. Every single one of his
"success" stories involved MASSIVE government intervention, both domestic
and foreign, into the economies in question, and they all had the same
outcome: complete destruction of the public sector, enrichment for the
global corporations that had no interest in the well being of the native
populations, and the abject impoverishment of everyone not connected to
the ruling elites who had basically sold out their own nations. All the
bullshit he's espoused about "freedom" for decades belies the fact that in
just about every case, his "reforms" have been accompanied by totalitarian
regimes that regularly imprisoned, tortured and killed people who dared
oppose these society-crushing policies. His philosophies were so
destructive and unpopular that they literally required the brute force of
government oppression in order to make them stick. Pretty stark contrast
to the freedom-loving persona he presented on the TV, eh?
I imagine you're unaware of this history, because instead of educating
yourself, you've been sitting around watching Donahue re-runs all day
long. IF YOU DON'T KNOW, DON'T POST.
darwin's evil because lions eat gazelles.

mo_ntresor
ChrisRobin
2012-08-01 17:27:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by mo_ntresor
darwin's evil because lions eat gazelles.
That's good stuff, mo, A+! You've nailed the essence of Friedman-style
propaganda: To bury the truth of state-sponsored colonialism and economic
subjugation behind cute-sounding catchphrases that make brainwashed
wannabe intellectual freedom-lovers swoon. Must be something in the Hyde
Park water.
mo_ntresor
2012-08-01 17:31:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by ChrisRobin
Post by mo_ntresor
darwin's evil because lions eat gazelles.
That's good stuff, mo, A+! You've nailed the essence of Friedman-style
propaganda: To bury the truth of state-sponsored colonialism and economic
subjugation behind cute-sounding catchphrases that make brainwashed
wannabe intellectual freedom-lovers swoon. Must be something in the Hyde
Park water.
friedman was more anarchist than totalitarian.

mo_ntresor
ChrisRobin
2012-08-01 17:44:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by mo_ntresor
Post by ChrisRobin
Post by mo_ntresor
darwin's evil because lions eat gazelles.
That's good stuff, mo, A+! You've nailed the essence of Friedman-style
propaganda: To bury the truth of state-sponsored colonialism and economic
subjugation behind cute-sounding catchphrases that make brainwashed
wannabe intellectual freedom-lovers swoon. Must be something in the Hyde
Park water.
friedman was more anarchist than totalitarian.
I'm not sure how you can say that with any sort of confidence. The chasm
between his public rhetoric and his actual policies (in action) was so
wide it's hard to know exactly what he believed. He was certainly a slick
mouthpiece though, I'll give him that.
mo_ntresor
2012-08-01 17:52:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by ChrisRobin
Post by mo_ntresor
friedman was more anarchist than totalitarian.
I'm not sure how you can say that with any sort of confidence. The chasm
between his public rhetoric and his actual policies (in action) was so
wide it's hard to know exactly what he believed. He was certainly a slick
mouthpiece though, I'll give him that.
http://solutionproblem.wordpress.com/tag/milton-friedman/

mo_ntresor
ChrisRobin
2012-08-01 19:57:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by mo_ntresor
Post by ChrisRobin
Post by mo_ntresor
friedman was more anarchist than totalitarian.
I'm not sure how you can say that with any sort of confidence. The chasm
between his public rhetoric and his actual policies (in action) was so
wide it's hard to know exactly what he believed. He was certainly a slick
mouthpiece though, I'll give him that.
http://solutionproblem.wordpress.com/tag/milton-friedman/
Neo-liberal myth-making and historical revisionism. See this:

www.citizen.org/documents/chilealternatives.pdf
popinjay999
2012-08-01 20:24:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by ChrisRobin
www.citizen.org/documents/chilealternatives.pdf
VIVA PINOCHET!
mo_ntresor
2012-08-01 20:25:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by ChrisRobin
Post by mo_ntresor
http://solutionproblem.wordpress.com/tag/milton-friedman/
www.citizen.org/documents/chilealternatives.pdf
"Since replacing its IMF and World Bank-imposed policies, Argentina has
become the fastest growing economy in Latin America."

LOL!

mo_ntresor
ChrisRobin
2012-08-01 21:46:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by mo_ntresor
"Since replacing its IMF and World Bank-imposed policies, Argentina has
become the fastest growing economy in Latin America."
LOL!
What, you have a problem with Latin America's tallest midget?
popinjay999
2012-08-01 17:31:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by ChrisRobin
Must be something in the Hyde
Park water.
Is that what's causing the flash mobs?
mo_ntresor
2012-08-01 17:55:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by popinjay999
Post by ChrisRobin
Must be something in the Hyde
Park water.
Is that what's causing the flash mobs?
the only flash mob i'm aware of was in 1970s lily-white whistler.

mo_ntresor
ChrisRobin
2012-08-01 20:00:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by mo_ntresor
darwin's evil because lions eat gazelles.
When you're a vulture, everything looks like a carcass.
popinjay999
2012-08-01 17:15:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by ChrisRobin
Post by FL Turbo
You're a real hoot, Chris Robin.
Go watch the video I posted and then come back and tell me about all
those "bumper sticker soundbites".
I'm perfectly aware of Friedman's philosophies going back to the '50s, I
Friedman's primary function during the important (latter) phases of his
career was as an imperial propagandist, NOT as an economist.
Post by FL Turbo
I fear you are one of the people who don't have the attention span
required to absorb any more than one of the current soundbites that
the Media delivers.
on the actual track record of policies he's championed all over the globe.
I've like, read about them, in detail and stuff. Reality, not gum-flapping
nonsense on a TV talk show that catered to housewives (lol).
Believe it or not, I do believe in some conservative/libertarian economic
principles, and many of the things that Friedman has said over the years
make a lot of sense. My issue with the guy is that his actual policies, in
action, are the 180 degree opposite of his rhetoric. You need look no
further than the places his policies have had the most impact Latin
America to see that he's a disingenuous fraud. Every single one of his
"success" stories involved MASSIVE government intervention, both domestic
and foreign, into the economies in question, and they all had the same
outcome: complete destruction of the public sector, enrichment for the
global corporations that had no interest in the well being of the native
populations, and the abject impoverishment of everyone not connected to
the ruling elites who had basically sold out their own nations. All the
bullshit he's espoused about "freedom" for decades belies the fact that in
just about every case, his "reforms" have been accompanied by totalitarian
regimes that regularly imprisoned, tortured and killed people who dared
oppose these society-crushing policies. His philosophies were so
destructive and unpopular that they literally required the brute force of
government oppression in order to make them stick. Pretty stark contrast
to the freedom-loving persona he presented on the TV, eh?
I imagine you're unaware of this history, because instead of educating
yourself, you've been sitting around watching Donahue re-runs all day
long. IF YOU DON'T KNOW, DON'T POST.
I didn't dare mention that Freedman was a phony because I know Fl
Turbo would just answer back with his standard accusation against me.
"Well, Popinjay, you think EVERYONE is a phony. There are no
conservatives that you have ever endorsed, I think you're a closet
commie." I know he would have said that.

At the same time, I cannot recall ever having seen Fl Turbo mention
the likes of Ludwig Von Mises, Hans Sennholz, or even Frederic
Bastiat. I'm pretty sure Turbo has led a sheltered life.

-Paul "The Way" Popinjay
ChrisRobin
2012-08-01 17:31:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by popinjay999
I didn't dare mention that Freedman was a phony because I know Fl
Turbo would just answer back with his standard accusation against me.
"Well, Popinjay, you think EVERYONE is a phony. There are no
conservatives that you have ever endorsed, I think you're a closet
commie." I know he would have said that.
Lol. Correct.
Post by popinjay999
At the same time, I cannot recall ever having seen Fl Turbo mention
the likes of Ludwig Von Mises, Hans Sennholz, or even Frederic
Bastiat. I'm pretty sure Turbo has led a sheltered life.
I'm not sure if "sheltered" is exactly right. I think "willfully ignorant"
is a bit more accurate.
mo_ntresor
2012-08-01 17:32:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by ChrisRobin
Post by popinjay999
I didn't dare mention that Freedman was a phony because I know Fl
Turbo would just answer back with his standard accusation against me.
"Well, Popinjay, you think EVERYONE is a phony. There are no
conservatives that you have ever endorsed, I think you're a closet
commie." I know he would have said that.
Lol. Correct.
Post by popinjay999
At the same time, I cannot recall ever having seen Fl Turbo mention
the likes of Ludwig Von Mises, Hans Sennholz, or even Frederic
Bastiat. I'm pretty sure Turbo has led a sheltered life.
I'm not sure if "sheltered" is exactly right. I think "willfully ignorant"
is a bit more accurate.
you two could spot a conspiracy in goddamn olympic badminton.

mo_ntresor
ChrisRobin
2012-08-01 17:40:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by mo_ntresor
you two could spot a conspiracy in goddamn olympic badminton.
Oh, I get it. Lolz.
popinjay999
2012-08-01 17:46:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by mo_ntresor
Post by ChrisRobin
Post by popinjay999
I didn't dare mention that Freedman was a phony because I know Fl
Turbo would just answer back with his standard accusation against me.
"Well, Popinjay, you think EVERYONE is a phony.  There are no
conservatives that you have ever endorsed, I think you're a closet
commie."  I know he would have said that.
Lol. Correct.
Post by popinjay999
At the same time, I cannot recall ever having seen Fl Turbo mention
the likes of Ludwig Von Mises, Hans Sennholz, or even Frederic
Bastiat.  I'm pretty sure Turbo has led a sheltered life.
I'm not sure if "sheltered" is exactly right. I think "willfully ignorant"
is a bit more accurate.
you two could spot a conspiracy in goddamn olympic badminton.
mo_ntresor
And yet you and Turbo could NOT spot a conspiracy if it was in a phone
booth with you.
popinjay999
2012-08-01 17:44:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by mo_ntresor
you two could spot a conspiracy in goddamn olympic badminton.
mo_ntresor
I don't know about badminton but I think it pretty convenient that
this shooting happened in Colorado just as the UN was working on
disarming Americans.
FL Turbo
2012-08-05 00:43:11 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 1 Aug 2012 10:15:47 -0700 (PDT), popinjay999
Post by popinjay999
Post by ChrisRobin
Post by FL Turbo
You're a real hoot, Chris Robin.
Go watch the video I posted and then come back and tell me about all
those "bumper sticker soundbites".
I'm perfectly aware of Friedman's philosophies going back to the '50s, I
Friedman's primary function during the important (latter) phases of his
career was as an imperial propagandist, NOT as an economist.
Post by FL Turbo
I fear you are one of the people who don't have the attention span
required to absorb any more than one of the current soundbites that
the Media delivers.
on the actual track record of policies he's championed all over the globe.
I've like, read about them, in detail and stuff. Reality, not gum-flapping
nonsense on a TV talk show that catered to housewives (lol).
Believe it or not, I do believe in some conservative/libertarian economic
principles, and many of the things that Friedman has said over the years
make a lot of sense. My issue with the guy is that his actual policies, in
action, are the 180 degree opposite of his rhetoric. You need look no
further than the places his policies have had the most impact Latin
America to see that he's a disingenuous fraud. Every single one of his
"success" stories involved MASSIVE government intervention, both domestic
and foreign, into the economies in question, and they all had the same
outcome: complete destruction of the public sector, enrichment for the
global corporations that had no interest in the well being of the native
populations, and the abject impoverishment of everyone not connected to
the ruling elites who had basically sold out their own nations. All the
bullshit he's espoused about "freedom" for decades belies the fact that in
just about every case, his "reforms" have been accompanied by totalitarian
regimes that regularly imprisoned, tortured and killed people who dared
oppose these society-crushing policies. His philosophies were so
destructive and unpopular that they literally required the brute force of
government oppression in order to make them stick. Pretty stark contrast
to the freedom-loving persona he presented on the TV, eh?
I imagine you're unaware of this history, because instead of educating
yourself, you've been sitting around watching Donahue re-runs all day
long. IF YOU DON'T KNOW, DON'T POST.
I didn't dare mention that Freedman was a phony because I know Fl
Turbo would just answer back with his standard accusation against me.
"Well, Popinjay, you think EVERYONE is a phony. There are no
conservatives that you have ever endorsed, I think you're a closet
commie." I know he would have said that.
Heh.
You've got me pegged
That's exactly what I would have said.
That's exactly what I say today, except for the "closet commie" part.
(Hey, I was only joking about that part.)

I think that you and Chris are remarkably alike.
You both despise both political parties, and want something different.
I think that in your case, it's some form of Capitalism.
In Chris's case, it's some form of ????? (call it Kinda Utopian for
lack of a better term.
Neither of you make a case of who and what you are Actually For.

I try at least to find something or someone to be FOR rather than sing
the old Groucho tune of "Whatever it is, I'm Against it."

The only Hope for Change I can see right now is the TEA Party
Movement.
Smaller, less intrusive Federal government and adherence to the
Constitution.
The things that the Libertarian Party used to be at one time.

The only hope is to get enough of the TEA Party Conservatives into
Congress who will not only Talk the Talk but also Walk the Walk, and
kick Romney's if he decides to go all Wobbly once in office.

Hope springs eternal
--------------------------------------------------------
"Let us Pray"
"Oh Lord, can we accomplish all of this in 4 years? -
"Or are we just jerking off?"
Post by popinjay999
At the same time, I cannot recall ever having seen Fl Turbo mention
the likes of Ludwig Von Mises, Hans Sennholz, or even Frederic
Bastiat. I'm pretty sure Turbo has led a sheltered life.
You're right about part of that.
I've never read the complete works of Von Mises, Bastiat or that
Sennholtz guy.
I have read a good many parts of what they had to say, so I think I
got the idea of what they are all about.

I pretty much gave up on trying to understand economic theory after I
got past the Micro part with those neato graphs explaining the
relationship between Supply, Demand and Price.

The basics still hold up, though.
Governments can possibly neatly control 1 or 2 of those variables, but
the 3rd will always be there to come around and kick them squarely in
the ass if they aren't careful.

You can call me a dilettante.
popinjay999
2012-08-05 00:59:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by FL Turbo
Neither of you make a case of who and what you are Actually For.
Perhaps you missed that post. I am for following the original intent
of our founders. I am for emphasizing the 10th Amendment, and
repealing the 14th, 16th, and 17th, amongst others.

And the "capitalism" that I am for is the natural result of limiting
government and keeping it out of the marketplace. That's called free-
enterprise. I disagree with the notion that "capitalism" is something
opposite of "communsim/socialism", because even communists are
capitalists, capital is the means of production and they believe in
government/elite controlling and owning the means of production
(capital). I believe in the private sector owning the capital, which
is the ONLY thing that can happen when you limit government to its
proper function. It's proper function is not taking from some and
giving to others. That's legal plunder.

The only way we can restore these principles of Americanism is one
step at a time, slowly educating the electorate, and electing
honorable men to Congress who will fight to reverse these fuckheads
who have ruined this country.

And lastly, reinstall all former laws against sedition and treason,
and put Chris Robin in irons where he belongs!

-Paul "The Way" Popinjay
fffurken
2012-08-05 01:41:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by popinjay999
And the "capitalism" that I am for is the natural result of limiting
government and keeping it out of the marketplace.  That's called free-
enterprise.  I disagree with the notion that "capitalism" is something
opposite of "communsim/socialism", because even communists are
capitalists, capital is the means of production and they believe in
government/elite controlling and owning the means of production
(capital).  I believe in the private sector owning the capital, which
is the ONLY thing that can happen when you limit government to its
proper function.  It's proper function is not taking from some and
giving to others.  That's legal plunder.
You know what I think we should do with people like you Paul, people
who don't want a society? We should just give you your own country and
ship you off, maybe an island.

Although I laugh, because within a year or so and after the ammunition
has run out, I'm sure the survivors would be begging to come back.

PS. You have gravely insulted me by putting me on 24 hour ignore. That
and calling me a "no class mutherfucker" in one week???

I have my people, right now, doing up your 1 billion year contract.
After that, it'll just need your sig.
FL Turbo
2012-08-06 23:59:29 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 4 Aug 2012 17:59:32 -0700 (PDT), popinjay999
Post by popinjay999
Post by FL Turbo
Neither of you make a case of who and what you are Actually For.
Perhaps you missed that post. I am for following the original intent
of our founders. I am for emphasizing the 10th Amendment, and
repealing the 14th, 16th, and 17th, amongst others.
And the "capitalism" that I am for is the natural result of limiting
government and keeping it out of the marketplace. That's called free-
enterprise. I disagree with the notion that "capitalism" is something
opposite of "communsim/socialism", because even communists are
capitalists, capital is the means of production and they believe in
government/elite controlling and owning the means of production
(capital). I believe in the private sector owning the capital, which
is the ONLY thing that can happen when you limit government to its
proper function. It's proper function is not taking from some and
giving to others. That's legal plunder.
The only way we can restore these principles of Americanism is one
step at a time, slowly educating the electorate, and electing
honorable men to Congress who will fight to reverse these fuckheads
who have ruined this country.
Very well said.
I agree with all of it.

I also agree with those who say that we should stop using the term
"capitalism", and instead call for Free Enterprise.
Unfortunately, capitalism has slowly been corrupted into "crony"
capitalism.
Repos have demonstrated that corruption, but Obama has demonstrated
that the Demos are equally guilty of the same, only with a different
set of cronies: General Electric being the prime example.
"Sustainable Energy" boondoggles as well.
As the Vodka Pundit explained: "When I give my money to Apple, I get a
shiny new toy. When I give my money to the government, I get a silent
partnership in Solyndra".

But which one of us mice is to go and "Bell the cat"?
Well, Sir.

It isn't enough to sit here and agree on basic principles: there needs
to be a group of people dedicated to Constitutional government to make
it happen.

I give you the TEA Party.
They are equally hated and feared by Establishment Republicans,
Democrats of all types, the Lamestream Media, and Greenie
Socialist/Marxist Whackos as well.

I say that any group that is as universally opposed are sure to be
going in the right direction.
Post by popinjay999
And lastly, reinstall all former laws against sedition and treason,
and put Chris Robin in irons where he belongs!
I can't agree with that.
As per Christian beliefs, there has to be a way to offer redemption to
those who are willing to see The Way.
For those like Chris, I recommend a yearly 30 day stay in a
Re-education Camp.
In Texas.
In July.
Post by popinjay999
-Paul "The Way" Popinjay
-----------------------------------------------
I am FL "Not a lawyer" Turbo and I approve this message
popinjay999
2012-08-07 01:52:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by FL Turbo
On Sat, 4 Aug 2012 17:59:32 -0700 (PDT), popinjay999
Post by popinjay999
And lastly, reinstall all former laws against sedition and treason,
and put Chris Robin in irons where he belongs!
I can't agree with that.
As per Christian beliefs, there has to be a way to offer redemption to
those who are willing to see The Way.
For those like Chris, I recommend a yearly 30 day stay in a
Re-education Camp.
In Texas.
In July.
Ok then, let me rephrase that so it's something we can both agree on.

Put CLAVE in irons where he belongs!
Tim Norfolk
2012-08-08 03:00:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by FL Turbo
On Sat, 4 Aug 2012 17:59:32 -0700 (PDT), popinjay999
Post by popinjay999
Post by FL Turbo
Neither of you make a case of who and what you are Actually For.
Perhaps you missed that post. I am for following the original intent
of our founders. I am for emphasizing the 10th Amendment, and
repealing the 14th, 16th, and 17th, amongst others.
And the "capitalism" that I am for is the natural result of limiting
government and keeping it out of the marketplace. That's called free-
enterprise. I disagree with the notion that "capitalism" is something
opposite of "communsim/socialism", because even communists are
capitalists, capital is the means of production and they believe in
government/elite controlling and owning the means of production
(capital). I believe in the private sector owning the capital, which
is the ONLY thing that can happen when you limit government to its
proper function. It's proper function is not taking from some and
giving to others. That's legal plunder.
The only way we can restore these principles of Americanism is one
step at a time, slowly educating the electorate, and electing
honorable men to Congress who will fight to reverse these fuckheads
who have ruined this country.
Very well said.
I agree with all of it.
I also agree with those who say that we should stop using the term
"capitalism", and instead call for Free Enterprise.
Unfortunately, capitalism has slowly been corrupted into "crony"
capitalism.
Repos have demonstrated that corruption, but Obama has demonstrated
that the Demos are equally guilty of the same, only with a different
set of cronies: General Electric being the prime example.
"Sustainable Energy" boondoggles as well.
As the Vodka Pundit explained: "When I give my money to Apple, I get a
shiny new toy. When I give my money to the government, I get a silent
partnership in Solyndra".
But which one of us mice is to go and "Bell the cat"?
Well, Sir.
It isn't enough to sit here and agree on basic principles: there needs
to be a group of people dedicated to Constitutional government to make
it happen.
I give you the TEA Party.
They are equally hated and feared by Establishment Republicans,
Democrats of all types, the Lamestream Media, and Greenie
Socialist/Marxist Whackos as well.
I say that any group that is as universally opposed are sure to be
going in the right direction.
Post by popinjay999
And lastly, reinstall all former laws against sedition and treason,
and put Chris Robin in irons where he belongs!
I can't agree with that.
As per Christian beliefs, there has to be a way to offer redemption to
those who are willing to see The Way.
For those like Chris, I recommend a yearly 30 day stay in a
Re-education Camp.
In Texas.
In July.
Post by popinjay999
-Paul "The Way" Popinjay
-----------------------------------------------
I am FL "Not a lawyer" Turbo and I approve this message
Just to nit-pick, the Solyndra loans were negotiated by the Bush administration, and re-negotitated under Obama.
FL Turbo
2012-08-05 00:02:30 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 01 Aug 2012 09:43:44 -0700, "ChrisRobin"
Post by ChrisRobin
Post by FL Turbo
You're a real hoot, Chris Robin.
Go watch the video I posted and then come back and tell me about all
those "bumper sticker soundbites".
I'm perfectly aware of Friedman's philosophies going back to the '50s, I
Friedman's primary function during the important (latter) phases of his
career was as an imperial propagandist, NOT as an economist.
Post by FL Turbo
I fear you are one of the people who don't have the attention span
required to absorb any more than one of the current soundbites that
the Media delivers.
on the actual track record of policies he's championed all over the globe.
I've like, read about them, in detail and stuff. Reality, not gum-flapping
nonsense on a TV talk show that catered to housewives (lol).
Well, you are correct in that I hadn't kept up with any of the later
developments in his career.
Post by ChrisRobin
Believe it or not, I do believe in some conservative/libertarian economic
principles, and many of the things that Friedman has said over the years
make a lot of sense. My issue with the guy is that his actual policies, in
action, are the 180 degree opposite of his rhetoric. You need look no
further than the places his policies have had the most impact – Latin
America – to see that he's a disingenuous fraud. Every single one of his
"success" stories involved MASSIVE government intervention, both domestic
and foreign, into the economies in question, and they all had the same
outcome: complete destruction of the public sector, enrichment for the
global corporations that had no interest in the well being of the native
populations, and the abject impoverishment of everyone not connected to
the ruling elites who had basically sold out their own nations. All the
bullshit he's espoused about "freedom" for decades belies the fact that in
just about every case, his "reforms" have been accompanied by totalitarian
regimes that regularly imprisoned, tortured and killed people who dared
oppose these society-crushing policies. His philosophies were so
destructive and unpopular that they literally required the brute force of
government oppression in order to make them stick. Pretty stark contrast
to the freedom-loving persona he presented on the TV, eh?
So it seems to me that your biggest complaint is that he might have
Talked the Talk, but didn't Walk the Walk when it came time to put
some of the talk into actual practice.

Personally, I didn't pay any attention at all to the events in Latin
America besides thinking that those people down there were just plain
crazy.

Popinjay would most likely be the one to offer an informed opinion.
My totally uninformed opinion is you got all your information from
Left-Wingnut sources.
All I have to go on is that IMHO you don't like Capitalism.
(I could be wrong though.)
Post by ChrisRobin
I imagine you're unaware of this history, because instead of educating
yourself, you've been sitting around watching Donahue re-runs all day
long. IF YOU DON'T KNOW, DON'T POST.
Yeah, I know, I know.
You KNOW.
Kinda like you just KNOW that planted explosives brought down WTC7.
(See "gratituitous insult" for explanation)
FL Turbo
2012-08-01 00:53:33 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 31 Jul 2012 05:43:49 -0700, "mo_ntresor"
Post by mo_ntresor
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444226904577558882802335216.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop
"I remember asking Milton, a year or so before his death, during one of
our semiannual dinners in downtown San Francisco: What can we do to make
America more prosperous? "Three things," he replied instantly. "Promote
free trade, school choice for all children, and cut government spending."
How much should we cut? "As much as possible."
Good post, mo.
I was thinking of starting a new thread celebrating Milton Friedman,
but you saved me the trouble.



Here, by the magic of Youtube is a perfect example of what a marvelous
spokesman for Conservative Principles he was, in explaining how humans
beings and Governments really operate, in contrast to the unrecognized
mythical assumptions of simple-minded Liberal Weenies.

It may be from 1979, but the things he talks about are just as valid
today, even more so than '79.
It's timeless.

You could substitute almost any of the current Liberals in today's
Mass Media for Phil Donahue and hear the same Liberal arguments.

Of course, the attention span of the average TV viewer has shortened
so drastically that the discussion today be cut down to a 30 second
sound bite.

And then, there doesn't appear to be anyone today able to articulate
the Conservative viewpoint as effectively as the marvelous Milton
Friedman.

Here I would be remiss if I didn't offer a Warning.
Confirmed Lefties need to keep a damp cloth handy to drape over their
forehead if they actually watch the video.
Otherwise, the heat generated by the Cognitive Dissonance in their
brains could literally make their heads explode.
Can't say I didn't warn them.

-----------------------------------------
Mister, we could use a man like Milton Friedman again.
popinjay999
2012-08-01 00:56:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by FL Turbo
And then, there doesn't appear to be anyone today able to articulate
the Conservative viewpoint as effectively as the marvelous Milton
Friedman.
Walter Williams seems to do a pretty good job of 'splaining stuff.
FL Turbo
2012-08-01 02:09:39 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 31 Jul 2012 17:56:51 -0700 (PDT), popinjay999
Post by popinjay999
Post by FL Turbo
And then, there doesn't appear to be anyone today able to articulate
the Conservative viewpoint as effectively as the marvelous Milton
Friedman.
Walter Williams seems to do a pretty good job of 'splaining stuff.
Yes, he does.

Unfortunately, the Liberal Media has already designated the Spokesmen
for all Black Americans, namely one of the Liberal variety like Jesse
Jackson or Al Sharpton; anyone who will sing their song.

Black Conservatives are delegated to the back of the bus.

That is changing, but very slowly.
BillB
2012-08-01 07:22:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by FL Turbo
Black Conservatives are delegated to the back of the bus.
There's more than one?
popinjay999
2012-08-01 08:23:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by BillB
Post by FL Turbo
Black Conservatives are delegated to the back of the bus.
There's more than one?
You must have misunderstood, Turbo meant on a nationwide scale, not
just on the streets of Vancouver.
bub
2012-08-01 23:13:32 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 31 Jul 2012 17:56:51 -0700 (PDT), popinjay999
Post by popinjay999
Post by FL Turbo
And then, there doesn't appear to be anyone today able to articulate
the Conservative viewpoint as effectively as the marvelous Milton
Friedman.
Walter Williams seems to do a pretty good job of 'splaining stuff.
thomas sowell is just as good if not better than williams
popinjay999
2012-08-02 03:59:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by bub
thomas sowell is just as good if not better than williams
I know who he is but not really familiar with his work. I'll make a
point of reading some of his thoughts. Thanks, Bub.

On the other hand, I've met Williams and listened to him in person.
He's great.
bub
2012-08-01 12:00:22 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 31 Jul 2012 05:43:49 -0700, "mo_ntresor"
Post by mo_ntresor
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444226904577558882802335216.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop
"I remember asking Milton, a year or so before his death, during one of
our semiannual dinners in downtown San Francisco: What can we do to make
America more prosperous? "Three things," he replied instantly. "Promote
free trade, school choice for all children, and cut government spending."
How much should we cut? "As much as possible."
how on earth did this embarrassment of a president survived hyde park?
mo_ntresor
"if you put the federal government in charge of the sahara desert, in
5 years there'd be a shortage of sand."
milton friedman
mo_ntresor
2012-08-01 12:34:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by mo_ntresor
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444226904577558882802335216.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop
"if you put the federal government in charge of the sahara desert, in
5 years there'd be a shortage of sand."
milton friedman
"Higher taxes never reduce the deficit. Governments spend whatever they
take in and then whatever they can get away with."

mo_ntresor
Tim Norfolk
2012-08-01 15:45:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by mo_ntresor
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444226904577558882802335216.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop
"I remember asking Milton, a year or so before his death, during one of
our semiannual dinners in downtown San Francisco: What can we do to make
America more prosperous? "Three things," he replied instantly. "Promote
free trade, school choice for all children, and cut government spending."
How much should we cut? "As much as possible."
how on earth did this embarrassment of a president survived hyde park?
mo_ntresor
Friedman's ideas are a wonderful fix. Unfortunately, like most economic models, they have the inherent flaw: they assume that people act rationally.

If they did, no poker game would ever be profitable.
mo_ntresor
2012-08-01 16:08:53 UTC
Permalink
On Aug 1 2012 9:45 AM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444226904577558882802335216.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop
Post by Tim Norfolk
Friedman's ideas are a wonderful fix. Unfortunately, like most economic
models, they have the
Post by Tim Norfolk
inherent flaw: they assume that people act rationally.
If they did, no poker game would ever be profitable.
have you ever read friedman? what on earth are you talking about?

mo_ntresor
mo_ntresor
2012-08-01 16:18:58 UTC
Permalink
On Aug 1 2012 10:08 AM, mo_ntresor wrote:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444226904577558882802335216.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop
Post by Tim Norfolk
Post by Tim Norfolk
Friedman's ideas are a wonderful fix. Unfortunately, like most economic
models, they have the
Post by Tim Norfolk
inherent flaw: they assume that people act rationally.
If they did, no poker game would ever be profitable.
have you ever read friedman? what on earth are you talking about?
"You don’t have to believe it. I don’t believe it. We all know the market
is not efficient in a descriptive sense. But that doesn’t mean that the
efficient market is not the best approximation if you don’t have anything
else to use. …Warren Buffett proves that there’s not an efficient market,
and yet Warren Buffett is what makes the market efficient, and both
statements are right. If the market were 100% efficient, nobody could make
any money making it efficient, and then it wouldn’t be efficient again. So
in a way it’s self-contradictory to suppose that there really is an
efficient market." -- milton friedman

mo_ntresor
Continue reading on narkive:
Loading...