Discussion:
Donald Trump
(too old to reply)
susan
2011-03-31 13:41:03 UTC
Permalink
I've been listening to him quite a bit - I like his style - no nonsense.

He's pissed the the Arab League isn't paying us for one thing.

He is stuck on this Obama birth certificate thing.

He just said that with a "Certificate of Live Birth" you can not get a
driver's license?
mo_charles
2011-03-31 14:24:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by susan
I've been listening to him quite a bit - I like his style - no nonsense.
He's pissed the the Arab League isn't paying us for one thing.
He is stuck on this Obama birth certificate thing.
He just said that with a "Certificate of Live Birth" you can not get a
driver's license?
he's a classic. he'd make a terrible president, but he's part of what i
love about the american right. the paul family fits as well.

mo_charles

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RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com
DDawgster
2011-03-31 16:35:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by susan
I've been listening to him quite a bit - I like his style - no nonsense.
He's pissed the the Arab League isn't paying us for one thing.
He is stuck on this Obama birth certificate thing.
you really think this a "plus" ?
Post by susan
He just said that with a "Certificate of Live Birth" you can not get a
driver's license?
"Besides that, this exercise is not about variance, it is about winrate".

JTS in the thread about magic powers

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susan
2011-03-31 16:58:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by susan
I've been listening to him quite a bit - I like his style - no nonsense.
He's pissed the the Arab League isn't paying us for one thing.
He is stuck on this Obama birth certificate thing.
you really think this a "plus" ?

ummmmmmmmmm no. Did I say that?
Post by susan
He just said that with a "Certificate of Live Birth" you can not get a
driver's license?
So you don't know either?
DDawgster
2011-03-31 17:31:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by DDawgster
Post by susan
I've been listening to him quite a bit - I like his style - no nonsense.
He's pissed the the Arab League isn't paying us for one thing.
He is stuck on this Obama birth certificate thing.
you really think this a "plus" ?
ummmmmmmmmm no. Did I say that?
Post by susan
He just said that with a "Certificate of Live Birth" you can not get a
driver's license?
So you don't know either?
NOPE.. but i find it pretty hard to believe that his parents had a 3rd
party plane 2 phony birth announcements in 2 seperate papers assuming that
in 40 some years he would use it to become president

i file this lame shit with the ones who say "bush orchestrated 9-11"

i am sure this is a hot topic at KKK meetings


"Besides that, this exercise is not about variance, it is about winrate".

JTS in the thread about magic powers

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susan
2011-03-31 17:25:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by DDawgster
Post by susan
I've been listening to him quite a bit - I like his style - no nonsense.
He's pissed the the Arab League isn't paying us for one thing.
He is stuck on this Obama birth certificate thing.
you really think this a "plus" ?
ummmmmmmmmm no. Did I say that?
Post by susan
He just said that with a "Certificate of Live Birth" you can not get a
driver's license?
So you don't know either?
NOPE.. but i find it pretty hard to believe that his parents had a 3rd
party plane 2 phony birth announcements in 2 seperate papers assuming that
in 40 some years he would use it to become president

i file this lame shit with the ones who say "bush orchestrated 9-11"

i am sure this is a hot topic at KKK meetings
---------------------------------------------------------------

I am NOT a birther - I truly believe that if the Republican Govn of Hawaii
had anything to disprove he was born ther she would have disclosed that a
long time ago. I just find it odd with the immense sources at the Donalds
hands that he would say this.
fffurken
2011-03-31 19:12:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by susan
I am NOT a birther
So YOU'RE not a 'birther' (ridiculous term). Thanks for clearing that
up.

So what has Donald Trump got to do with it?
Post by susan
I just find it odd with the immense sources at the Donalds
hands that he would say this.
LOL! GTFOH, susan.
Pepe Papon
2011-04-02 04:35:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by susan
I just find it odd with the immense sources at the Donalds
hands that he would say this.
I see your point. Rich people are never stupid and political
candidates never lie. That doesn't leave many possible explanations.
susan
2011-04-02 13:36:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by susan
Post by susan
I just find it odd with the immense sources at the Donalds
hands that he would say this.
I see your point. Rich people are never stupid and political
candidates never lie. That doesn't leave many possible explanations.
Right Pepe - I didn't think of that *sigh*

So you don't know either. That's fine.
Pepe Papon
2011-04-03 09:46:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by susan
Post by susan
Post by susan
I just find it odd with the immense sources at the Donalds
hands that he would say this.
I see your point. Rich people are never stupid and political
candidates never lie. That doesn't leave many possible explanations.
Right Pepe - I didn't think of that *sigh*
Than what's odd about it? There's nothing at all odd about
politicians lying.
Post by susan
So you don't know either. That's fine.
Of course I don't know. I can guess, though.
David Monaghan
2011-04-02 23:09:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by susan
I am NOT a birther - I truly believe that if the Republican Govn of Hawaii
had anything to disprove he was born ther she would have disclosed that a
long time ago. I just find it odd with the immense sources at the Donalds
hands that he would say this.
OTOH, one of the things it's widely believed Donald Trump lies about is the
size of his resources (I assume you meant that rather than "sources"), which
may not be as immense as he claims. That may answer your query.

On a related note: Stephen Hawkins, with his immense intellect, has never
questioned Obama's nationality. That's the clincher for me.

DaveM
Travel
2011-04-02 23:24:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Monaghan
Post by susan
I am NOT a birther - I truly believe that if the Republican Govn of Hawaii
had anything to disprove he was born ther she would have disclosed that a
long time ago.  I just find it odd with the immense sources at the Donalds
hands that he would say this.
OTOH, one of the things it's widely believed Donald Trump lies about is the
size of his resources (I assume you meant that rather than "sources"), which
may not be as immense as he claims. That may answer your query.
On a related note: Stephen Hawkins, with his immense intellect, has never
questioned Obama's nationality. That's the clincher for me.
DaveM
Actually, Donald Trump's position on "Obama's birth certificate" is
that he can't understand why Obama, not only won't present the birth
certificate, but has paid millions in lawyers' fees to keep it from
public scrutiny.

That's a good question, don'tcha think?
susan
2011-04-02 23:57:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Monaghan
Post by susan
I am NOT a birther - I truly believe that if the Republican Govn of Hawaii
had anything to disprove he was born ther she would have disclosed that a
long time ago. I just find it odd with the immense sources at the Donalds
hands that he would say this.
OTOH, one of the things it's widely believed Donald Trump lies about is the
size of his resources (I assume you meant that rather than "sources"), which
may not be as immense as he claims. That may answer your query.
On a related note: Stephen Hawkins, with his immense intellect, has never
questioned Obama's nationality. That's the clincher for me.
DaveM
Actually, Donald Trump's position on "Obama's birth certificate" is
that he can't understand why Obama, not only won't present the birth
Post by David Monaghan
certificate, but has paid millions in lawyers' fees to keep it from
public scrutiny.
Post by David Monaghan
That's a good question, don'tcha think?
I've asked that question here many times and always get "why should he" or
"you birthers will never be happy no matter what he produces"

Probably not true, but while looking this up just now, it seems that there
is yet another inconsistency. His social security *allegedly* number was
issued in Connecticut in 1980 - he wasn't in Connecticut in 1980 -
Clave
2011-04-03 01:25:03 UTC
Permalink
"susan" <***@charter.net> wrote in message news:xJOlp.2873$***@newsfe10.iad...

<...>
Post by susan
Post by Travel
That's a good question, don'tcha think?
I've asked that question here many times and always get "why should he"
or "you birthers will never be happy no matter what he produces"
I think he wants to keep you mooing birthers around just to remind everyone
else just how fucking unhinged the GOP has become.

It's working, too.

Jim
Travel
2011-04-03 23:12:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clave
<...>
Post by susan
Post by Travel
That's a good question, don'tcha think?
I've asked that question here many times and always get "why should he"
or "you birthers will never be happy no matter what he produces"
I think he wants to keep you mooing birthers around just to remind everyone
else just how fucking unhinged the GOP has become.
It's working, too.
Jim
No one is saying that Obama was born on Jupiter. The question is if he
was born in the United States. Billions of people aren't born in the
United States and there's nothing "wacky" about questioning whether a
president was born in the United States. There's nothing "wacky" about
expecting a simple thing like proof of citizenship from someone who
grew up in indonesia as a Muslim.
Clave
2011-04-03 23:21:35 UTC
Permalink
<...>
Post by Travel
Post by Clave
I think he wants to keep you mooing birthers around just to remind everyone
else just how fucking unhinged the GOP has become.
It's working, too.
No one is saying that Obama was born on Jupiter. The question is if he
was born in the United States. Billions of people aren't born in the
United States and there's nothing "wacky" about questioning whether a
president was born in the United States. There's nothing "wacky" about
expecting a simple thing like proof of citizenship from someone who
grew up in indonesia as a Muslim.
Exactly my point. Keep it coming, Travel.

Jim
Travel
2011-04-03 23:59:28 UTC
Permalink
<...>
Post by Travel
Post by Clave
I think he wants to keep you mooing birthers around just to remind everyone
else just how fucking unhinged the GOP has become.
It's working, too.
No one is saying that Obama was born on Jupiter. The question is if he
was born in the United States. Billions of people aren't born in the
United States and there's nothing "wacky" about questioning whether a
president was born in the United States. There's nothing "wacky" about
expecting a simple thing like proof of  citizenship from someone who
grew up in indonesia as a Muslim.
Exactly my point.  Keep it coming, Travel.
Jim
That's not you're point. What happened, run out of dumb quips?
Clave
2011-04-04 00:35:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Travel
Post by Clave
<...>
Post by Travel
Post by Clave
I think he wants to keep you mooing birthers around just to remind everyone
else just how fucking unhinged the GOP has become.
It's working, too.
No one is saying that Obama was born on Jupiter. The question is if he
was born in the United States. Billions of people aren't born in the
United States and there's nothing "wacky" about questioning whether a
president was born in the United States. There's nothing "wacky" about
expecting a simple thing like proof of citizenship from someone who
grew up in indonesia as a Muslim.
Exactly my point. Keep it coming, Travel.
Jim
That's not you're point. What happened, run out of dumb quips?
Not necessary when you're on such a roll.

Jim
--
Well, shit, you confused me. More than normal
-- Beldin
Travel
2011-04-04 01:03:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clave
Post by Travel
<...>
Post by Travel
Post by Clave
I think he wants to keep you mooing birthers around just to remind everyone
else just how fucking unhinged the GOP has become.
It's working, too.
No one is saying that Obama was born on Jupiter. The question is if he
was born in the United States. Billions of people aren't born in the
United States and there's nothing "wacky" about questioning whether a
president was born in the United States. There's nothing "wacky" about
expecting a simple thing like proof of  citizenship from someone who
grew up in indonesia as a Muslim.
Exactly my point.  Keep it coming, Travel.
Jim
That's not you're point. What happened, run out of dumb quips?
Not necessary when you're on such a roll.
Jim
--
Well, shit, you confused me. More than normal
  -- Beldin- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Well, there's a dumb quip right there, Clavey.

We're wondering when it'll be necessary for you to post your first
intelligent comment. Is there something holding up the big day?
Clave
2011-04-04 01:12:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Travel
Post by Clave
Post by Travel
Post by Clave
<...>
Post by Travel
Post by Clave
I think he wants to keep you mooing birthers around just to remind everyone
else just how fucking unhinged the GOP has become.
It's working, too.
No one is saying that Obama was born on Jupiter. The question is if he
was born in the United States. Billions of people aren't born in the
United States and there's nothing "wacky" about questioning whether a
president was born in the United States. There's nothing "wacky" about
expecting a simple thing like proof of citizenship from someone who
grew up in indonesia as a Muslim.
Exactly my point. Keep it coming, Travel.
That's not you're point. What happened, run out of dumb quips?
Not necessary when you're on such a roll.
Well, there's a dumb quip right there, Clavey.
Trying so hard to make your silliness look legitimate is only *part* of what
makes you so damn cute.

Jim
Travel
2011-04-04 01:31:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clave
Post by Travel
Post by Clave
Post by Travel
<...>
Post by Travel
Post by Clave
I think he wants to keep you mooing birthers around just to remind
everyone
else just how fucking unhinged the GOP has become.
It's working, too.
No one is saying that Obama was born on Jupiter. The question is if he
was born in the United States. Billions of people aren't born in the
United States and there's nothing "wacky" about questioning whether a
president was born in the United States. There's nothing "wacky" about
expecting a simple thing like proof of  citizenship from someone who
grew up in indonesia as a Muslim.
Exactly my point.  Keep it coming, Travel.
That's not you're point. What happened, run out of dumb quips?
Not necessary when you're on such a roll.
Well, there's a dumb quip right there, Clavey.
Trying so hard to make your silliness look legitimate is only *part* of what
makes you so damn cute.
Jim- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Ooooo! that must be one of your "necessary" quips, Clavey.

Still waiting for "the big day."
Clave
2011-04-04 01:36:40 UTC
Permalink
"Travel" <***@webtv.net> wrote in message news:991b7b9d-fa5b-48d9-ae1e-***@s9g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...

<...>
Post by Travel
Still waiting for "the big day."
When you become a Real Boy?

You're going to have to wish pretty hard for that, Travel.

Jim
Travel
2011-04-05 02:39:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clave
<...>
Post by Travel
Still waiting for "the big day."
When you become a Real Boy?
You're going to have to wish pretty hard for that, Travel.
Jim
Another dumb Clavey-quip.
Nope, looks like today isn't "the big day."
Travel
2011-04-04 01:14:08 UTC
Permalink
<...>
Post by Clave
I think he wants to keep you mooing birthers around just to remind everyone
else just how fucking unhinged the GOP has become.
It's working, too.
No one is saying that Obama was born on Jupiter. The question is if he
was born in the United States. Billions of people aren't born in the
United States and there's nothing "wacky" about questioning whether a
president was born in the United States. There's nothing "wacky" about
expecting a simple thing like proof of  citizenship from someone who
grew up in indonesia as a Muslim.
Clave
2011-04-04 01:31:44 UTC
Permalink
"Travel" <***@webtv.net> wrote in message news:81cc4025-b3d7-47a7-a9d0-***@f11g2000vbx.googlegroups.com...

<...>
Post by Travel
No one is saying that Obama was born on Jupiter. The question is if he
was born in the United States. Billions of people aren't born in the
United States and there's nothing "wacky" about questioning whether a
president was born in the United States. There's nothing "wacky" about
expecting a simple thing like proof of citizenship from someone who
grew up in indonesia as a Muslim.
Your sad obsession with that belief *IS* wacky.

Know what mainstream Americans see when they look at Birthers? Raving,
thinly-veiled racist k00ks.

Even Karl Rove wishes you'd all just shut the fuck up.

The right-wing base of the Republican Party--I'm part of that
right-wing base--is not in love with the issue of birthers. I
mean, there is an element inside the Republican Party and outside
the Republican Party that's fallen in love with this. But the
vast majority of Republicans and the vast majority of Americans
accept that he's a U.S. citizen and capable of being president.
And this is a distraction. [...]

This is a mistake. It will marginalize [Trump]. And he's
falling for Barack Obama's trap. Barack Obama wants Republicans
to fall into this trap, because he knows it discredits us with
the vast majority of American people when they do.

Of course, he's put the tinfoil hat on himself and is selling the whole idea
as a BIG TRAP engineered by the CRAFTY, UPPITY President, rather than just
admitting that the GOP has welcomed gullible l00ns like you with wide open
arms since the 60s and you're just making more embarrassing noise than
usual.

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/robert-schlesinger/2011/03/31/karl-roves-half-right-on-donald-trump-and-the-birther-trap

Jim
--
Well, shit, you confused me. More than normal
-- Beldin
David Monaghan
2011-04-03 00:03:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Travel
Actually, Donald Trump's position on "Obama's birth certificate" is
that he can't understand why Obama, not only won't present the birth
certificate, but has paid millions in lawyers' fees to keep it from
public scrutiny.
That's a good question, don'tcha think?
It depends on your political leaning, I suspect. If the law has a point -
and it seems pretty much to contradict the mantra that all Americans are
equal - it's to prevent a President with divided loyalties. That doesn't
seem an issue here, either way.

Perhaps he feels it would send the wrong message to the rest of the world
about the USA if the first black President had to show his birth certificate
when all previous white Presidents didn't. Or maybe not - that's the great
thing about speculation, you can male up what you like.

DaveM
Travel
2011-04-03 23:02:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Monaghan
Post by Travel
Actually, Donald Trump's position on "Obama's birth certificate" is
that he can't understand why Obama, not only won't present the birth
certificate, but has paid millions in lawyers' fees to keep it from
public scrutiny.
That's a good question, don'tcha think?
It depends on your political leaning, I suspect.
Meaning, if you're left wing Obama supporter, and Obama wasn't born in
the U.S., you're more than willing to overlook his Constitutional
ineligibility to be President.

If the law has a point -
Post by David Monaghan
and it seems pretty much to contradict the mantra that all Americans are
equal - it's to prevent a President with divided loyalties. That doesn't
seem an issue here, either way.
Oh, you think that the founding fathers didn't anticipate a true
America-loving patriot like Obama, is that it. You think they should
have parenthetically included in the Constitution: ("except if it's
Obama, who's black"). Iiiii seee.

McCain had to show his own birth certificate.
Post by David Monaghan
Perhaps he feels it would send the wrong message to the rest of the world
about the USA if the first black President had to show his birth certificate
when all previous white Presidents didn't.
Or maybe not - that's the great
thing about speculation, you can male up what you like.
DaveM
Uh, I'll go with "not."
No one could really think that that's the reason Obama spent millions
to conceal his birth certificate.
susan
2011-04-03 23:17:03 UTC
Permalink
"Travel"
Post by Travel
McCain had to show his own birth certificate.
I'm pretty sure McCain hasn't shown his college transcripts, but he did
admit to being 5th from the bottom (or thereabouts) in his class at the
Naval Academy. Obama simply won't say anything or show his transcripts.
Clave
2011-04-03 23:22:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by susan
"Travel"
Post by Travel
McCain had to show his own birth certificate.
I'm pretty sure McCain hasn't shown his college transcripts, but he did
admit to being 5th from the bottom (or thereabouts) in his class at the
Naval Academy. Obama simply won't say anything or show his transcripts.
Any reason he should? You don't make the Law Review with shitty grades.
--
Well, shit, you confused me. More than normal
-- Beldin
susan
2011-04-03 23:58:32 UTC
Permalink
"Clave"
Post by Clave
You don't make the Law Review with shitty grades.
I agree - so why keep things secret? He was the one who ran as as having an
open and transparent government.

I fail to understand why keeping these things secret is just fine in your
book, or maybe it isn't and you are just disagreeing with me.

One more thing - suppose, just suppose (and I don't think it will happen) it
is proved that he wasn't born in hawait, but rather in Kenya. What would
your reaction be?
Clave
2011-04-04 00:35:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by susan
"Clave"
Post by Clave
You don't make the Law Review with shitty grades.
I agree - so why keep things secret?
I told you.

Jim
susan
2011-04-04 00:51:20 UTC
Permalink
"Clave" wrote in message news:inb3kk$lmk$***@dont-email.me...


"susan" <
Post by Clave
Post by susan
Post by Clave
You don't make the Law Review with shitty grades.
I agree - so why keep things secret?
I told you.
Jim
LOL good answer - you don't make the Law Review with shitty grades.

I give -
Clave
2011-04-04 01:09:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clave
"susan" <
Post by Clave
Post by susan
Post by Clave
You don't make the Law Review with shitty grades.
I agree - so why keep things secret?
I told you.
Jim
LOL good answer - you don't make the Law Review with shitty grades.
No, I told you in another post, and you've done nothing since but post
evidence that I'm completely correct.

Jim
susan
2011-04-04 01:21:08 UTC
Permalink
"Clave"
Post by Clave
No, I told you in another post, and you've done nothing since but post
evidence that I'm completely correct.
Jim
*sigh* this is the Jerry school of avoidance. Maybe it didn't show up in
my newsreader, but I doubt it. Could you maybe tell me what time you posted
it? Or what you said?

You wrote this about the birth certificate - I am asking about this "shitty
grades". You haven't responded to that. nothing to do with birth
certificate.

"I think he wants to keep you mooing birthers around just to remind everyone
else just how fucking unhinged the GOP has become. It's working, too."
Clave
2011-04-04 01:33:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by susan
"Clave"
Post by Clave
No, I told you in another post, and you've done nothing since but post
evidence that I'm completely correct.
Jim
*sigh* this is the Jerry school of avoidance. Maybe it didn't show up in
my newsreader, but I doubt it. Could you maybe tell me what time you
posted it? Or what you said?
You wrote this about the birth certificate - I am asking about this
"shitty grades". You haven't responded to that. nothing to do with birth
certificate.
Why do the reasons have to be different?

Jim
susan
2011-04-04 01:45:44 UTC
Permalink
"Clave"
Post by Clave
Why do the reasons have to be different?
im
whoa - you see no difference? I see someone who got into Harvard Law but
refusing to show us how he got there. From what I've read there are very
few (like 4) who even recall him there. I could easily get 20 people to
swear they went to Radcliffe with me. (and no, I didn't go there) This
would have nothing to do with his legitimacy to be POTUS.

The birth certificate thing if is true he could have no knowledge about, but
his job as POTUS would be threatened.
Clave
2011-04-04 01:53:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by susan
"Clave"
Post by Clave
Why do the reasons have to be different?
im
whoa - you see no difference?
In not seeing a need to legitimize either set of ludicrous demands?

None at all.

Jim
Travel
2011-04-05 02:44:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clave
Post by susan
"Clave"
Post by Clave
Why do the reasons have to be different?
im
whoa - you see no difference?
In not seeing a need to legitimize either set of ludicrous demands?
None at all.
Jim
In other words, you can't answer the question, again. Just as we
thought.
Clave
2011-04-05 03:07:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Travel
Post by Clave
Post by susan
"Clave"
Post by Clave
Why do the reasons have to be different?
im
whoa - you see no difference?
In not seeing a need to legitimize either set of ludicrous demands?
None at all.
Jim
In other words, you can't answer the question, again. Just as we
thought.
*sigh*

You're even worse than PDS -- you just ignore what you don't want to hear.

Jim
--
Well, shit, you confused me. More than normal
-- Beldin
Travel
2011-04-05 03:30:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by susan
Post by Travel
Post by Clave
Post by susan
"Clave"
Post by Clave
Why do the reasons have to be different?
im
whoa - you see no difference?
In not seeing a need to legitimize either set of ludicrous demands?
None at all.
Jim
In other words, you can't answer the question, again. Just as we
thought.
*sigh*
You're even worse than PDS -- you just ignore what you don't want to hear.
Jim
--
Well, shit, you confused me. More than normal
  -- Beldin- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Is that what you have to tell yourself, Clavey? Is it easier to live
with that way?
beta
2011-04-04 02:23:57 UTC
Permalink
whoa - you see no difference? I see someone who got into Harvard Law but
refusing to show us how he got there. From what I've read there are very
few (like 4) who even recall him there. I could easily get 20 people to
swear they went to Radcliffe with me. (and no, I didn't go there) This
would have nothing to do with his legitimacy to be POTUS.
I'm too lazy to read the previous posts on this thread, but many many
people remember Obama from Harvard law, esp. since he held the top
student position there.

If you mean that no one remembers him from Columbia, that's a different
story. How many of the classmates from your big Ivy League college do
you remember?

How did Obama get into HLS? Probably with pretty good LSAT's, decent
marks in a soft major from Columbia, real-life experience (he actually
walked the mean streets of Chicago), and yes, affirmative action.

But he graduated near the top, and about half of the grades at HLS
were/are given blinded. Among his HLS cohort, he was one of the
smartest. One can argue how much smarts matter, compared to
decisiveness, congeniality, or plain dumb luck.
susan
2011-04-04 12:06:07 UTC
Permalink
whoa - you see no difference? I see someone who got into Harvard Law but
refusing to show us how he got there. From what I've read there are very
few (like 4) who even recall him there. I could easily get 20 people to
swear they went to Radcliffe with me. (and no, I didn't go there) This
would have nothing to do with his legitimacy to be POTUS.
I'm too lazy to read the previous posts on this thread, but many many
people remember Obama from Harvard law, esp. since he held the top student
position there.
If you mean that no one remembers him from Columbia, that's a different
story. How many of the classmates from your big Ivy League college do you
remember?
That’s what I meant - Columbia
How did Obama get into HLS? Probably with pretty good LSAT's, decent marks
in a soft major from Columbia, real-life experience (he actually walked the
mean streets of Chicago), and yes, affirmative action.
So why hide the marks from Columbia? I believe is a very smart person -
just too secretive from what he promised us.
But he graduated near the top, and about half of the grades at HLS were/are
given blinded. Among his HLS cohort, he was one of the smartest.
One can argue how much smarts matter, compared to decisiveness,
congeniality, or plain dumb luck.
Travel
2011-04-05 02:53:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by beta
whoa - you see no difference? I see someone who got into Harvard Law but
refusing to show us how he got there. From what I've read there are very
few (like 4) who even recall him there. I could easily get 20 people to
swear they went to Radcliffe with me. (and no, I didn't go there) This
would have nothing to do with his legitimacy to be POTUS.
I'm too lazy to read the previous posts on this thread, but many many
people remember Obama from Harvard law, esp. since he held the top
student position there.
If you mean that no one remembers him from Columbia, that's a different
story. How many of the classmates from your big Ivy League college do
you remember?
How did Obama get into HLS? Probably with pretty good LSAT's, decent
marks in a soft major from Columbia, real-life experience (he actually
walked the mean streets of Chicago), and yes, affirmative action.
But he graduated near the top, and about half of the grades at HLS
were/are given blinded. Among his HLS cohort, he was one of the
smartest. One can argue how much smarts matter, compared to
decisiveness, congeniality, or plain dumb luck.
Perhaps you could produce some Obama writings. That would at least be
a basis for evaluation as to how "smart" he is. No one seems to be
able to find Obama's written. Odd for a student, don'tcha think;
especially a student who makes the Law Review where writing is a
qualification.
Travel
2011-04-05 03:37:49 UTC
Permalink
Correction on post, above:

"No one seems to be
able to find Obama's written."


Make that:

No one seems to be
able to find anything Obama's written.

da pickle
2011-04-04 14:08:41 UTC
Permalink
"susan"

See what happens when you Clave?

This is a No Claving newsgroup. Please be careful.
Clave
2011-04-04 17:52:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clave
"susan"
See what happens when you Clave?
This is a No Claving newsgroup. Please be careful.
Yeah, I'm not very good at letting other people frame questions for me.

Some people just can't handle that.
--
Well, shit, you confused me. More than normal
-- Beldin
Travel
2011-04-04 01:26:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clave
Post by Clave
"susan" <
Post by Clave
Post by susan
Post by Clave
You don't make the Law Review with shitty grades.
I agree - so why keep things secret?
I told you.
Jim
LOL  good answer - you don't make the Law Review with shitty grades.
No, I told you in another post, and you've done nothing since but post
evidence that I'm completely correct.
Jim- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Clavey, sputterings predicated on past blitherings doesn't make you
correct.
Travel
2011-04-04 00:54:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by susan
"Clave"
Post by Clave
You don't make the Law Review with shitty grades.
I agree - so why keep things secret?  He was the one who ran as as having an
open and transparent government.
I fail to understand why keeping these things secret is just fine in your
book, or maybe it isn't and you are just disagreeing with me.
One more thing - suppose, just suppose (and I don't think it will happen) it
is proved that he wasn't born in hawait, but rather in Kenya.  What would
your reaction be?
Who, Clavey? Clavey's reaction would be the same as the situation
where Obama's keeping GITMO open, etc.:...(crickets.)
Clave
2011-04-04 01:10:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Travel
Post by susan
"Clave"
Post by Clave
You don't make the Law Review with shitty grades.
I agree - so why keep things secret? He was the one who ran as as having an
open and transparent government.
I fail to understand why keeping these things secret is just fine in your
book, or maybe it isn't and you are just disagreeing with me.
One more thing - suppose, just suppose (and I don't think it will happen) it
is proved that he wasn't born in hawait, but rather in Kenya. What would
your reaction be?
Who, Clavey? Clavey's reaction would be the same as the situation
where Obama's keeping GITMO open, etc.:...(crickets.)
I gave you both a completely rational reason why there will be no response
to this hysterical nonsense from the White House.

I didn't expect you to like it.

Jim
--
Well, shit, you confused me. More than normal
-- Beldin
Travel
2011-04-04 01:29:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clave
Post by Travel
Post by susan
"Clave"
Post by Clave
You don't make the Law Review with shitty grades.
I agree - so why keep things secret?  He was the one who ran as as having an
open and transparent government.
I fail to understand why keeping these things secret is just fine in your
book, or maybe it isn't and you are just disagreeing with me.
One more thing - suppose, just suppose (and I don't think it will happen) it
is proved that he wasn't born in hawait, but rather in Kenya.  What would
your reaction be?
Who, Clavey? Clavey's reaction would be the same as the situation
where Obama's keeping GITMO open, etc.:...(crickets.)
I gave you both a completely rational reason why there will be no response
to this hysterical nonsense from the White House.
I didn't expect you to like it.
Jim
--
Well, shit, you confused me. More than normal
  -- Beldin- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
In other words, you "can't" answer the question.
Clave
2011-04-04 01:34:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Travel
Post by Clave
Post by Travel
Post by susan
"Clave"
Post by Clave
You don't make the Law Review with shitty grades.
I agree - so why keep things secret? He was the one who ran as as
having
an
open and transparent government.
I fail to understand why keeping these things secret is just fine in your
book, or maybe it isn't and you are just disagreeing with me.
One more thing - suppose, just suppose (and I don't think it will
happen)
it
is proved that he wasn't born in hawait, but rather in Kenya. What would
your reaction be?
Who, Clavey? Clavey's reaction would be the same as the situation
where Obama's keeping GITMO open, etc.:...(crickets.)
I gave you both a completely rational reason why there will be no response
to this hysterical nonsense from the White House.
I didn't expect you to like it.
In other words, you "can't" answer the question.
I did. You just don't like the answer.

Jim
susan
2011-04-04 01:49:28 UTC
Permalink
"Clave" wrote in message news:inb74h$svh$***@dont-email.me...

This was a new question Clave

One more thing - suppose, just suppose (and I don't think it will happen)
it is proved that he wasn't born in hawait, but rather in Kenya. What would
your reaction be?
Post by Travel
Post by Clave
Post by Travel
Post by susan
"Clave"
Post by Clave
You don't make the Law Review with shitty grades.
I agree - so why keep things secret? He was the one who ran as as
having
an
open and transparent government.
I fail to understand why keeping these things secret is just fine in your
book, or maybe it isn't and you are just disagreeing with me.
One more thing - suppose, just suppose (and I don't think it will
happen)
it
is proved that he wasn't born in hawait, but rather in Kenya. What would
your reaction be?
Who, Clavey? Clavey's reaction would be the same as the situation
where Obama's keeping GITMO open, etc.:...(crickets.)
I gave you both a completely rational reason why there will be no response
to this hysterical nonsense from the White House.
I didn't expect you to like it.
In other words, you "can't" answer the question.
I did. You just don't like the answer.

Jim

This was a different question - actually 3.

"susan" wrote in message news:FQ7mp.7121$***@newsfe17.iad...


I agree - so why keep things secret? He was the one who ran as as having an
open and transparent government.

I fail to understand why keeping these things secret is just fine in your
book, or maybe it isn't and you are just disagreeing with me.

One more thing - suppose, just suppose (and I don't think it will happen) it
is proved that he wasn't born in hawait, but rather in Kenya. What would
your reaction be?
Clave
2011-04-04 01:56:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by susan
This was a new question Clave
One more thing - suppose, just suppose (and I don't think it will happen)
it is proved that he wasn't born in hawait, but rather in Kenya. What
would your reaction be?
Any such speculation on my part would involve taking the question seriously.

Jim
susan
2011-04-04 12:07:26 UTC
Permalink
"Clave"
Post by Clave
Any such speculation on my part would involve taking the question seriously.
Jim
LOL keep goosestepping away
Clave
2011-04-04 17:51:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by susan
"Clave"
Post by Clave
Any such speculation on my part would involve taking the question seriously.
Jim
LOL keep goosestepping away
You really aren't getting this, are you?

PDS.
--
Well, shit, you confused me. More than normal
-- Beldin
susan
2011-04-04 18:34:35 UTC
Permalink
"Clave"
Post by Clave
You really aren't getting this, are you?
PDS.
What I am getting is your refusal to answer any question except with stupid
one liners.

But I have been told this is claving?
Clave
2011-04-04 18:41:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by susan
"Clave"
Post by Clave
You really aren't getting this, are you?
PDS.
What I am getting is your refusal to answer any question except with
stupid one liners.
And despite having been told several times, you're still completely
oblivious as to why.

Amazing.

Jim
susan
2011-04-04 18:48:09 UTC
Permalink
"Clave"
Post by susan
What I am getting is your refusal to answer any question except with
stupid one liners.
And despite having been told several times, you're still completely
oblivious as to why.
Amazing.
im
why claving? because that is who you are what you do. It's cool. It
fits. Go proudly into the night. Wear your colors with pride.
Clave
2011-04-04 19:03:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by susan
"Clave"
Post by susan
What I am getting is your refusal to answer any question except with
stupid one liners.
And despite having been told several times, you're still completely
oblivious as to why.
Amazing.
im
why claving? because that is who you are what you do. It's cool. It
fits. Go proudly into the night. Wear your colors with pride.
And rather than actually making an effort to understand, you just stomp your
feet like a five-year-old and blame your ignorance on everyone but yourself.

There's a reason it only takes three letters to spell PDS. See if you can
figure that one out.

Jim
susan
2011-04-04 19:54:11 UTC
Permalink
You really are cute - this is your entire content in this thread. You
insist you have answered our questions several times. LOLOL

Happy Claving to you, until we meet again. Happy Claving to you, keep
smilin' until then ..................

-----------------------------------------------------------------


I think he wants to keep you mooing birthers around just to remind everyone
else just how fucking unhinged the GOP has become.

It's working, too.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Exactly my point. Keep it coming, Travel.

Jim

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not necessary when you're on such a roll.

Jim

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Trying so hard to make your silliness look legitimate is only *part* of what
makes you so damn cute.

Jim

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

When you become a Real Boy?

You're going to have to wish pretty hard for that, Travel.

Jim

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Your sad obsession with that belief *IS* wacky.

Know what mainstream Americans see when they look at Birthers? Raving,
thinly-veiled racist k00ks.

Even Karl Rove wishes you'd all just shut the fuck up.
snipping cutnpaste of Karl Rove
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Any reason he should? You don't make the Law Review with shitty grades.

I told you.

Jim

------------------------------------------------------------------------

No, I told you in another post, and you've done nothing since but post
evidence that I'm completely correct.

Jim

----------------------------------------------

In not seeing a need to legitimize either set of ludicrous demands?

None at all.

Jim

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah, I'm not very good at letting other people frame questions for me.

Some people just can't handle that.

I gave you both a completely rational reason why there will be no response
to this hysterical nonsense from the White House.

I didn't expect you to like it.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I did. You just don't like the answer.

Jim

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Any such speculation on my part would involve taking the question seriously.

Jim

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

You really aren't getting this, are you? PDS.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And despite having been told several times, you're still completely
oblivious as to why.

Amazing.

Jim

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And rather than actually making an effort to understand, you just stomp your
feet like a five-year-old and blame your ignorance on everyone but yourself.

There's a reason it only takes three letters to spell PDS. See if you can
figure that one out.

Jim

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Clave
2011-04-04 20:08:33 UTC
Permalink
"susan" <***@charter.net> wrote in message news:Elpmp.8012$***@newsfe02.iad...

<...>
Post by Clave
I think he wants to keep you mooing birthers around just to remind everyone
else just how fucking unhinged the GOP has become.
It's working, too.
PDS.

Jim
susan
2011-04-04 20:15:13 UTC
Permalink
"Clave"
PDS.
Jim
What is Jerry's line? Don't attach the messenger? You haven't answer
anything yet you tell me you have - SEVERAL TIMES.

I love this claving stuff - you are so cute

You really should be honored. I had to name myself PDS - other chose
claving for you.
Clave
2011-04-04 20:56:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by susan
"Clave"
PDS.
Jim
WAAAAH!!! Clave won't legitimize my stupid questions!!! WAAAAH!!!
Fixed your post.

Doesn't matter anyway. The answer to your *legitimate* questions has been
paraded under your nose several times. You even cut it from this very post.

There really isn't anything left to do but point and laugh at you.

Jim
Travel
2011-04-05 03:18:59 UTC
Permalink
You really are cute - this is your entire content in this thread.  You
insist you have answered our questions several times.  LOLOL
Happy Claving to you, until we meet again.   Happy Claving to you, keep
smilin' until then ..................
-----------------------------------------------------------------
I think he wants to keep you mooing birthers around just to remind everyone
else just how fucking unhinged the GOP has become.
It's working, too.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------­-------
Exactly my point.  Keep it coming, Travel.
Jim
---------------------------------------------------------------------------­--
Not necessary when you're on such a roll.
Jim
---------------------------------------------------------------------------­------
Trying so hard to make your silliness look legitimate is only *part* of what
makes you so damn cute.
Jim
---------------------------------------------------------------------------­-
When you become a Real Boy?
You're going to have to wish pretty hard for that, Travel.
Jim
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your sad obsession with that belief *IS* wacky.
Know what mainstream Americans see when they look at Birthers?  Raving,
thinly-veiled racist k00ks.
Even Karl Rove wishes you'd all just shut the fuck up.
snipping cutnpaste of Karl Rove
---------------------------------------------------------------------------­------------
Any reason he should?  You don't make the Law Review with shitty grades.
I told you.
Jim
------------------------------------------------------------------------
No, I told you in another post, and you've done nothing since but post
evidence that I'm completely correct.
Jim
----------------------------------------------
In not seeing a need to legitimize either set of ludicrous demands?
None at all.
Jim
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, I'm not very good at letting other people frame questions for me.
Some people just can't handle that.
I gave you both a completely rational reason why there will be no response
to this hysterical nonsense from the White House.
I didn't expect you to like it.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------­----------------
I did.  You just don't like the answer.
Jim
---------------------------------------------------------------------------­----------
Any such speculation on my part would involve taking the question seriously.
Jim
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
You really aren't getting this, are you?  PDS.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------­-------------
And despite having been told several times, you're still completely
oblivious as to why.
Amazing.
Jim
---------------------------------------------------------------------------­--------------------
And rather than actually making an effort to understand, you just stomp your
feet like a five-year-old and blame your ignorance on everyone but yourself.
There's a reason it only takes three letters to spell PDS.  See if you can
figure that one out.
Jim
---------------------------------------------------------------------------­----------------------------
Gee! if Clavey was Obama, he could make Harvad Law Review with that.
Travel
2011-04-05 02:45:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clave
Post by susan
This was a new question Clave
One more thing - suppose, just suppose (and I don't think it will happen)
it is proved that he wasn't born in hawait, but rather in Kenya.  What
would your reaction be?
Any such speculation on my part would involve taking the question seriously.
Jim
Meaning, you're nailed, again.
Clave
2011-04-05 03:11:11 UTC
Permalink
<...>
Post by Travel
Post by Clave
Post by susan
One more thing - suppose, just suppose (and I don't think it will happen)
it is proved that he wasn't born in hawait, but rather in Kenya. What
would your reaction be?
Any such speculation on my part would involve taking the question seriously.
Meaning, you're nailed, again.
Any time you say someone's been nailed, or that their ass has been kicked,
etc., it's a dead solid lock that the exact opposite is the truth.

It's really remarkable how consistent that is.

Jim
Travel
2011-04-05 03:32:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clave
<...>
Post by Travel
Post by Clave
Post by susan
One more thing - suppose, just suppose (and I don't think it will happen)
it is proved that he wasn't born in hawait, but rather in Kenya.  What
would your reaction be?
Any such speculation on my part would involve taking the question seriously.
Meaning, you're nailed, again.
Any time you say someone's been nailed, or that their ass has been kicked,
etc., it's a dead solid lock that the exact opposite is the truth.
It's really remarkable how consistent that is.
Jim
Well, actually, Clavey, it isn't me who has to say it, we go by your
own words.
Travel
2011-04-05 02:43:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by susan
This was a new question Clave
One more thing - suppose, just suppose (and I don't think it will happen)
it is proved that he wasn't born in hawait, but rather in Kenya.  What would
your reaction be?
Post by Travel
Post by Clave
Post by Travel
Post by susan
"Clave"
Post by Clave
You don't make the Law Review with shitty grades.
I agree - so why keep things secret?  He was the one who ran as as
having
an
open and transparent government.
I fail to understand why keeping these things secret is just fine in your
book, or maybe it isn't and you are just disagreeing with me.
One more thing - suppose, just suppose (and I don't think it will happen)
it
is proved that he wasn't born in hawait, but rather in Kenya.  What would
your reaction be?
Who, Clavey? Clavey's reaction would be the same as the situation
where Obama's keeping GITMO open, etc.:...(crickets.)
I gave you both a completely rational reason why there will be no response
to this hysterical nonsense from the White House.
I didn't expect you to like it.
In other words, you "can't" answer the question.
I did.  You just don't like the answer.
Jim
This was a different question - actually 3.
I agree - so why keep things secret?  He was the one who ran as as having an
open and transparent government.
I fail to understand why keeping these things secret is just fine in your
book, or maybe it isn't and you are just disagreeing with me.
One more thing - suppose, just suppose (and I don't think it will happen) it
is proved that he wasn't born in hawait, but rather in Kenya.  What would
your reaction be?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Crickets.

Just like with holder using military tribunals. When's Clavey going to
admit that Dick Cheney was right? I mean, Obama's doing the same thing
he did.
Travel
2011-04-05 02:37:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Travel
Post by Clave
Post by Travel
Post by susan
"Clave"
Post by Clave
You don't make the Law Review with shitty grades.
I agree - so why keep things secret?  He was the one who ran as as
having
an
open and transparent government.
I fail to understand why keeping these things secret is just fine in your
book, or maybe it isn't and you are just disagreeing with me.
One more thing - suppose, just suppose (and I don't think it will
happen)
it
is proved that he wasn't born in hawait, but rather in Kenya.  What would
your reaction be?
Who, Clavey? Clavey's reaction would be the same as the situation
where Obama's keeping GITMO open, etc.:...(crickets.)
I gave you both a completely rational reason why there will be no response
to this hysterical nonsense from the White House.
I didn't expect you to like it.
In other words, you "can't" answer the question.
I did.  You just don't like the answer.
Jim- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Yes, the truth is rather high on my likeability-list.
Omaha8_Beach
2011-04-03 23:55:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by susan
"Travel"
Post by Travel
McCain had to show his own birth certificate.
I'm pretty sure McCain hasn't shown his college transcripts, but he did
admit to being 5th from the bottom (or thereabouts) in his class at the
Naval Academy.  Obama simply won't say anything or show his transcripts.
This is a little off topic, but McCain probably isn't a natural born
citizen even though Congress had some resolution saying he is. I
understand the issue with Obama's original birth certificate, but in
my opinion McCain is 100% not a natural born citizen.

I think the President was born in Hawaii, but perhaps there is
something on the original birth certificate that they though might
hurt his chances in the election. My only logic is that his campaign
felt that releasing the original would hurt them more than it would
help them. Or it could have just been to spite those that they knew
would never support him.

Omaha8
susan
2011-04-04 00:09:48 UTC
Permalink
"Omaha8_Beach"
Post by Omaha8_Beach
This is a little off topic, but McCain probably isn't a natural born
citizen even though Congress had some resolution saying he is.
Wasn't he born of American military parents on an American Military Base in
Panama?
Post by Omaha8_Beach
2 of my kids were born of American parents on an American Military Base In
Germany and they have never had their citizenship questioned.
I think the President was born in Hawaii, but perhaps there is
something on the original birth certificate that they though might
hurt his chances in the election. My only logic is that his campaign
felt that releasing the original would hurt them more than it would
help them.
? Like what ?

date or birth? maybe he was born a couple years earlier before Hawaii was a
state?
David Monaghan
2011-04-04 00:17:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by susan
"Omaha8_Beach"
Post by Omaha8_Beach
This is a little off topic, but McCain probably isn't a natural born
citizen even though Congress had some resolution saying he is.
Wasn't he born of American military parents on an American Military Base in
Panama?
Possibly. Or maybe he was born off base. Trouble is, the founding fathers
didn't define what they meant by "natural born", and historically this has
been interpreted as born in a US State.

DaveM
William Coleman
2011-04-04 00:56:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Monaghan
Post by susan
"Omaha8_Beach"
Post by Omaha8_Beach
This is a little off topic, but McCain probably isn't a natural born
citizen even though Congress had some resolution saying he is.
Wasn't he born of American military parents on an American Military Base in
Panama?
Possibly. Or maybe he was born off base. Trouble is, the founding fathers
didn't define what they meant by "natural born", and historically this has
been interpreted as born in a US State.
No it hasn't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/'Natural_Born_Citizen'_clause_of_the_U.S._Constitution

"The requirements for citizenship, and its very definition in American
statute law, have changed since the Constitution was ratified in 1788.
Congress first recognized the citizenship of children born to U.S.
parents overseas on March 26, 1790, stating that "the children of
citizens of the United States, that may be born beyond sea, or out of
the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born
citizens: Provided, That the right of citizenship shall not descend to
persons whose fathers have never been resident in the United States."

"A memorandum to Congress dated April 3, 2009, written by the
Congressional Research Service, states--
Considering the history of the constitutional qualifications
provision, the common use and meaning of the phrase "natural-born
subject" in England and in the Colonies in the 1700s, the clause's
apparent intent, the subsequent action of the first Congress in
enacting the naturalization act of 1790 (expressly defining the term
"natural born citizen" to include a person born abroad to parents who
are United States citizens), as well as subsequent Supreme Court
dicta, it appears that the most logical inferences would indicate that
the phrase "natural born Citizen" would mean a person who is entitled
to U.S. citizenship "at birth"or" by birth."


William Coleman (ramashiva)
David Monaghan
2011-04-04 06:58:49 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 3 Apr 2011 17:56:23 -0700 (PDT), William Coleman
Post by William Coleman
Post by David Monaghan
Possibly. Or maybe he was born off base. Trouble is, the founding fathers
didn't define what they meant by "natural born", and historically this has
been interpreted as born in a US State.
No it hasn't.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/'Natural_Born_Citizen'_clause_of_the_U.S._Constitution
"The requirements for citizenship, and its very definition in American
statute law, have changed since the Constitution was ratified in 1788.
Congress first recognized the citizenship of children born to U.S.
parents overseas on March 26, 1790, stating that "the children of
citizens of the United States, that may be born beyond sea, or out of
the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born
citizens: Provided, That the right of citizenship shall not descend to
persons whose fathers have never been resident in the United States."
But it doesn't seem to suggest that the matter is settled there as can be
seen by all the subsequent case law. I wonder if "shall be considered as"
means "are" or just "are equivalent to".

The same article also goes on to say, 'The State Department also asserts
that "the fact that someone is a natural born citizen pursuant to a statute
does not necessarily imply that he or she is such a citizen for
Constitutional purposes." '

So that's clear then.

DaveM
William Coleman
2011-04-04 07:29:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Monaghan
On Sun, 3 Apr 2011 17:56:23 -0700 (PDT), William Coleman
Post by William Coleman
Post by David Monaghan
Possibly. Or maybe he was born off base. Trouble is, the founding fathers
didn't define what they meant by "natural born", and historically this has
been interpreted as born in a US State.
No it hasn't.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/'Natural_Born_Citizen'_clause_of_the_U.S...
"The requirements for citizenship, and its very definition in American
statute law, have changed since the Constitution was ratified in 1788.
Congress first recognized the citizenship of children born to U.S.
parents overseas on March 26, 1790, stating that "the children of
citizens of the United States, that may be born beyond sea, or out of
the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born
citizens: Provided, That the right of citizenship shall not descend to
persons whose fathers have never been resident in the United States."
But it doesn't seem to suggest that the matter is settled there as can be
seen by all the subsequent case law. I wonder if "shall be considered as"
means "are" or just "are equivalent to".
The same article also goes on to say, 'The State Department also asserts
that "the fact that someone is a natural born citizen pursuant to a statute
does not necessarily imply that he or she is such a citizen for
Constitutional purposes." '
So that's clear then.
It's perfectly clear. The State Department has no role in
interpreting the Constitution or in determining eligibility for the
office of President. Therefore, their opinion is utterly irrelevant.

The 1790 Congress was filled with Founding Fathers, so their
intentions with regard to the meaning of "natural born citizen" are
perfectly clear.

Therefore it is perfectly clear that your statement was 100% incorrect
--

"Trouble is, the founding fathers didn't define what they meant by
"natural born", and historically this has been interpreted as born in
a US State."

How can you possibly assert that "natural born" has historically been
interpreted as born in a US State???

"Natural born" has never been interpreted that way since 1790.

Further, you snipped my second paragraph --

"A memorandum to Congress dated April 3, 2009, written by the
Congressional Research Service, states--
Considering the history of the constitutional qualifications
provision, the common use and meaning of the phrase "natural-born
subject" in England and in the Colonies in the 1700s, the clause's
apparent intent, the subsequent action of the first Congress in
enacting the naturalization act of 1790 expressly defining the term
"natural born citizen" to include a person born abroad to parents who
are United States citizens), as well as subsequent Supreme Court
dicta, it appears that the most logical inferences would indicate that
the phrase "natural born Citizen" would mean a person who is entitled
to U.S. citizenship "at birth"or" by birth."


William Coleman (ramashiva)
Omaha8_Beach
2011-04-04 16:56:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Monaghan
On Sun, 3 Apr 2011 17:56:23 -0700 (PDT), William Coleman
Post by William Coleman
Post by David Monaghan
Possibly. Or maybe he was born off base. Trouble is, the founding fathers
didn't define what they meant by "natural born", and historically this has
been interpreted as born in a US State.
No it hasn't.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/'Natural_Born_Citizen'_clause_of_the_U.S...
"The requirements for citizenship, and its very definition in American
statute law, have changed since the Constitution was ratified in 1788.
Congress first recognized the citizenship of children born to U.S.
parents overseas on March 26, 1790, stating that "the children of
citizens of the United States, that may be born beyond sea, or out of
the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born
citizens: Provided, That the right of citizenship shall not descend to
persons whose fathers have never been resident in the United States."
But it doesn't seem to suggest that the matter is settled there as can be
seen by all the subsequent case law. I wonder if "shall be considered as"
means "are" or just "are equivalent to".
The same article also goes on to say, 'The State Department also asserts
that "the fact that someone is a natural born citizen pursuant to a statute
does not necessarily imply that he or she is such a citizen for
Constitutional purposes." '
So that's clear then.
It's perfectly clear.  The State Department has no role in
interpreting the Constitution or in determining eligibility for the
office of President.  Therefore, their opinion is utterly irrelevant.
The 1790 Congress was filled with Founding Fathers, so their
intentions with regard to the meaning of "natural born citizen" are
perfectly clear.
Therefore it is perfectly clear that your statement was 100% incorrect
--
"Trouble is, the founding fathers didn't define what they meant by
"natural born", and historically this has been interpreted as born in
a US State."
How can you possibly assert that "natural born" has historically been
interpreted as born in a US State???
"Natural born" has never been interpreted that way since 1790.
William, are you excluding the Dred Scott case? I'm pretty sure the
Supreme Court justices then were aware of the 1790 law and they came
to a different conclusion. Also, in U.S. vs Wong Kim Ark (1898) they
came to a different conclusion as well. These were both in the link
you provided and cite place of birth as being the determining factor
of citenship. If I am misunderstanding something, please clarify.

I agree that the 1790 law seems clear, but apparently there is
something that I am unaware of, as there have been other cases since
then that have failed to arrive at a clear ruling that is consistent
with the 1790. Also, if the interpretation of the 1790 was pervasive
since then (which you seem to be implying), then how do you account
for the above cases, and why would the 1937 citizenship law be
necessary?

Omaha8
Travel
2011-04-04 00:16:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Omaha8_Beach
Post by susan
"Travel"
Post by Travel
McCain had to show his own birth certificate.
I'm pretty sure McCain hasn't shown his college transcripts, but he did
admit to being 5th from the bottom (or thereabouts) in his class at the
Naval Academy.  Obama simply won't say anything or show his transcripts.
This is a little off topic, but McCain probably isn't a natural born
citizen even though Congress had some resolution saying he is.  I
understand the issue with Obama's original birth certificate, but in
my opinion McCain is 100% not a natural born citizen.
I think the President was born in Hawaii, but perhaps there is
something on the original birth certificate that they though might
hurt his chances in the election.  My only logic is that his campaign
felt that releasing the original would hurt them more than it would
help them.  Or it could have just been to spite those that they knew
would never support him.
Omaha8
That's right, there's obviously something about the birth certificate
he doesn't want revealed. There can't be any doubt about that.

Spiting those who would never support him: if there were nothing Obama
wants to hide, wouldn't it be more effective spite to wave a
legitimate birth certificate around and gloat about it?
Travel
2011-04-03 23:57:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by susan
"Travel"
Post by Travel
McCain had to show his own birth certificate.
I'm pretty sure McCain hasn't shown his college transcripts, but he did
admit to being 5th from the bottom (or thereabouts) in his class at the
Naval Academy.  Obama simply won't say anything or show his transcripts.
It's that "Affirmative Action thing," where the Law Review is based on
grades and writing competition, except if you're Obama who doesn't
have any grades and never wrote anything.
Dutch
2011-04-03 23:40:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Travel
No one could really think that that's the reason Obama spent millions
to conceal his birth certificate.
He should ask for his money back
Loading Image...
susan
2011-04-04 00:00:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dutch
Post by Travel
No one could really think that that's the reason Obama spent millions
to conceal his birth certificate.
He should ask for his money back
http://msgboard.snopes.com/politics/graphics/birth.jpg
LOL I think we are talking birth certificate. That has been around for a
couple years, but thanks for the revelation.
Dutch
2011-04-04 01:01:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by susan
Post by Dutch
Post by Travel
No one could really think that that's the reason Obama spent millions
to conceal his birth certificate.
He should ask for his money back
http://msgboard.snopes.com/politics/graphics/birth.jpg
LOL I think we are talking birth certificate.
As opposed to "Certificate of Birth"?


That has been around for a
Post by susan
couple years, but thanks for the revelation.
susan
2011-04-04 01:22:30 UTC
Permalink
"Dutch"
Post by Dutch
As opposed to "Certificate of Birth"?
yes - actually they are two different documents.
Travel
2011-04-04 00:04:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Travel
No one could really think that that's the reason Obama spent millions
to conceal his birth certificate.
He should ask for his money backhttp://msgboard.snopes.com/politics/graphics/birth.jpg
He should show his birth certificate. This is great if Trump hounds
this into the headlines again.
Dutch
2011-04-04 00:53:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Travel
Post by Dutch
Post by Travel
No one could really think that that's the reason Obama spent millions
to conceal his birth certificate.
He should ask for his money back
http://msgboard.snopes.com/politics/graphics/birth.jpg
Post by Travel
He should show his birth certificate.
Yea, forget this "Certificate of Birth" crap, what good is that?
Post by Travel
This is great if Trump hounds
this into the headlines again.
Anything that makes Trump look a bigger ass than he already does has to be
good.
Travel
2011-04-04 01:21:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dutch
Post by Travel
Post by Dutch
Post by Travel
No one could really think that that's the reason Obama spent millions
to conceal his birth certificate.
He should ask for his money back
http://msgboard.snopes.com/politics/graphics/birth.jpg
Post by Travel
He should show his birth certificate.
Yea, forget this "Certificate of Birth" crap, what good is that?
That's right, it obviously doesn't count.
Post by Dutch
Post by Travel
This is great if Trump hounds
this into the headlines again.
Anything that makes Trump look a bigger ass than he already does has to be
good.
Actually, he's making you look like an ass.
susan
2011-04-04 01:23:54 UTC
Permalink
"Dutch"
Post by Dutch
Post by Travel
He should show his birth certificate.
Yea, forget this "Certificate of Birth" crap, what good is that?
Dutch - I am going to assume that you haven't been around for the last two
years and read anything about this controversy.
Dutch
2011-04-04 07:38:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by susan
"Dutch"
Post by Dutch
Post by Travel
He should show his birth certificate.
Yea, forget this "Certificate of Birth" crap, what good is that?
Dutch - I am going to assume that you haven't been around for the last two
years and read anything about this controversy.
I've read and seen enough to recognize a conspiracy theory loon when I see
one.
David Monaghan
2011-04-04 00:09:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Travel
Post by David Monaghan
Post by Travel
Actually, Donald Trump's position on "Obama's birth certificate" is
that he can't understand why Obama, not only won't present the birth
certificate, but has paid millions in lawyers' fees to keep it from
public scrutiny.
That's a good question, don'tcha think?
It depends on your political leaning, I suspect.
Meaning, if you're left wing Obama supporter, and Obama wasn't born in
the U.S., you're more than willing to overlook his Constitutional
ineligibility to be President.
No, that wasn't quite what I meant, surprisingly. I was answering your
question about whether the question Donald Trump posed was a good one. You
don't think the answer to that splits on political grounds? Really?
Post by Travel
Post by David Monaghan
If the law has a point - and it seems pretty much to contradict the mantra that
all Americans are equal - it's to prevent a President with divided loyalties. That
doesn't seem an issue here, either way.
Oh, you think that the founding fathers didn't anticipate a true
America-loving patriot like Obama, is that it. You think they should
have parenthetically included in the Constitution: ("except if it's
Obama, who's black"). Iiiii seee.
I'm pretty certain the founding fathers didn't foresee this situation 200+
years ago, yes. Would they even have considered it theoretically possible
that a black man might become President one day? Who knows? My money would
be on "No", though.
Post by Travel
McCain had to show his own birth certificate.
And he was born to two US citizens, which makes him a US citizen by birth,
but only a "natural born" citizen if that title comes from inheritance
rather than by place of birth. Common sense suggests the former, but the
founding fathers probably meant it to apply to the place of birth, which
leaves his eligibility in doubt (which I'd agree with you, is ridiculous).

Interesting, btw, that previous attempts to have the Constitution amended
were to allow Henry Kissinger and Arnold Schwarzenegger to be eligible. So
perhaps it's not just the left who don't think the founding fathers got it
right, after all.
Post by Travel
Post by David Monaghan
Perhaps he feels it would send the wrong message to the rest of the world
about the USA if the first black President had to show his birth certificate
when all previous white Presidents didn't. Or maybe not - that's the great
thing about speculation, you can make up what you like.
Uh, I'll go with "not."
As is your right.

DaveM
Travel
2011-04-04 00:48:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Monaghan
Post by Travel
Post by David Monaghan
Post by Travel
Actually, Donald Trump's position on "Obama's birth certificate" is
that he can't understand why Obama, not only won't present the birth
certificate, but has paid millions in lawyers' fees to keep it from
public scrutiny.
That's a good question, don'tcha think?
It depends on your political leaning, I suspect.
Meaning, if you're left wing Obama supporter, and Obama wasn't born in
the U.S., you're more than willing to overlook his Constitutional
ineligibility to be President.
No, that wasn't quite what I meant, surprisingly. I was answering your
question about whether the question Donald Trump posed was a good one. You
don't think the answer to that splits on political grounds? Really?
No, any split on political grounds has to do with who does and who
doesn't like the question being asked in the first place. The
question, itself, remains a good one.
Post by David Monaghan
Post by Travel
Post by David Monaghan
If the law has a point - and it seems pretty much to contradict the mantra that
all Americans are equal - it's to prevent a President with divided loyalties. That
doesn't seem an issue here, either way.
Oh, you think that the founding fathers didn't anticipate a true
America-loving patriot like Obama, is that it. You think they should
have parenthetically included in the Constitution: ("except if it's
Obama, who's black"). Iiiii seee.
I'm pretty certain the founding fathers didn't foresee this situation 200+
years ago, yes. Would they even have considered it theoretically possible
that a black man might become President one day? Who knows? My money would
be on "No",  though.
Post by Travel
McCain had to show his own birth certificate.
And he was born to two US citizens, which makes him a US citizen by birth,
but only a "natural born" citizen if that title comes from inheritance
rather than by place of birth. Common sense suggests the former, but the
founding fathers probably meant it to apply to the place of birth, which
leaves his eligibility in doubt  (which I'd agree with you, is ridiculous).
I don't think a birth requirement of being born on American soil is
ridiculous. I'm in favor of it. With a situation where McCain doesn't
pass the test, he's out. I have no problem with that.

An American military base or embassy is American soil. It's the
United States., the same as downtown, L.A.
Post by David Monaghan
Interesting, btw, that previous attempts to have the Constitution amended
were to allow Henry Kissinger and Arnold Schwarzenegger to be eligible. So
perhaps it's not just the left who don't think the founding fathers got it
right, after all.
I don't remember anything serious going on in that regard. Neither one
is a conservative, anyway, so that still just leaves the left.
Post by David Monaghan
Post by Travel
Post by David Monaghan
Perhaps he feels it would send the wrong message to the rest of the world
about the USA if the first black President had to show his birth certificate
when all previous white Presidents didn't. Or maybe not - that's the great
thing about speculation, you can make up what you like.
Uh, I'll go with "not."
As is your right.
DaveM
Well, actually, it's not even in the realm of "a right," it's more
along the lines of "the obvious."
David Monaghan
2011-04-04 06:40:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Travel
I don't think a birth requirement of being born on American soil is
ridiculous. I'm in favor of it. With a situation where McCain doesn't
pass the test, he's out. I have no problem with that.
Wouldn't that mean the child of two foreigners, temporarily in residence in
the USA at the time of birth, could become President, but a direct
descendant of one of the founding fathers, born to two US citizens living
abroad at the time of birth, couldn't?

DaveM
Travel
2011-04-05 03:05:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Monaghan
Post by Travel
I don't think a birth requirement of being born on American soil is
ridiculous. I'm in favor of it. With a situation where McCain doesn't
pass the test, he's out. I have no problem with that.
Wouldn't that mean the child of two foreigners, temporarily in residence in
the USA at the time of birth, could become President,
If the parents aren't citizens, of course not. And the children born
in this county to illegal aliens shouldn't be given citizenship,
either.

but a direct
Post by David Monaghan
descendant of one of the founding fathers, born to two US citizens living
abroad at the time of birth, couldn't?
DaveM
Hey, Kathie Lee Gifford can't be President.

We all need to abide for the benefit of all, even if it means keeping
some of the best and the brightest with the biggest tits from the
White House.
David Monaghan
2011-04-04 07:01:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Travel
An American military base or embassy is American soil. It's the
United States., the same as downtown, L.A.
Not true, apparently, at least for the conference of citizenship.

DaveM
Travel
2011-04-05 03:09:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Monaghan
An American military base or embassy is American  soil. It's the
United States., the same as downtown, L.A.
Not true, apparently, at least for the conference of citizenship.
DaveM
It's absolutely true. The United States, not only owns the land under
our foreign embassies, that land IS the United States of America.
susan
2011-04-04 00:53:03 UTC
Permalink
"David Monaghan"

My original question, which got lost in this thread is - can you get a
drivers license with a certificate of live birth? the Donald said you
can't.
FL Turbo
2011-04-05 02:27:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by susan
"David Monaghan"
My original question, which got lost in this thread is - can you get a
drivers license with a certificate of live birth? the Donald said you
can't.
I don't know.
All I have is this.

Actually, I haven't taken the trouble to go look it up, but I do
believe it to be accurate.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Applying for Hawaiian Home Lands: [hawaii.gov]

Note from text:

"In order to process your application, DHHL utilizes information that
is found only on the original Certificate of Live Birth, which is
either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth
than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout).
Submitting the original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time
and money since the computer-generated Certification requires
additional verification by DHHL."
Pepe Papon
2011-04-02 04:32:18 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 31 Mar 2011 09:31:07 -0800, "DDawgster"
Post by DDawgster
Post by susan
Post by susan
He just said that with a "Certificate of Live Birth" you can not get a
driver's license?
So you don't know either?
NOPE.. but i find it pretty hard to believe that his parents had a 3rd
party plane 2 phony birth announcements in 2 seperate papers assuming that
in 40 some years he would use it to become president
The explantion you're looking for appears towards the end of this
video, but I don't think you'll regret watching the entire thing:

http://tpmtv.talkingpointsmemo.com/?id=3019429
TruthSeeker
2011-04-02 23:15:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pepe Papon
On Thu, 31 Mar 2011 09:31:07 -0800, "DDawgster"
Post by DDawgster
NOPE.. but i find it pretty hard to believe that his parents had a 3rd
party plane 2 phony birth announcements in 2 seperate papers assuming that
in 40 some years he would use it to become president
I'm not a birther, but I get tired of seeing this red herring. There
are, obviously, other reasons for a young mother to hide her newborn's
place of birth, by simply flying home and placing a birth announcement
in the local papers. It can be done weeks, even a couple of months
after birth if the date of birth is falsified also. I personally know
of a case of it being done for a much more mundane reason than thoughts
of a future political career -- in that case, it was to hide the fact
that the mother was pregnant at her wedding.

You'd probably be surprised at how easy it is to do.
--
TruthSeeker
Bea Foroni
2011-03-31 18:44:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by susan
I've been listening to him quite a bit - I like his style - no nonsense.
He's pissed the the Arab League isn't paying us for one thing.
He is stuck on this Obama birth certificate thing.
He just said that with a "Certificate of Live Birth" you can not get a
driver's license?
You know what I like the most about "The Donald"? How he made all this
money from real estate. Not really working, but more like wheeling and
dealing. Then his company declares bankruptcy, not once but twice! And
the really cool part is how he protects all his stuff and the people
who actually worked are the ones stuck getting pennies on the dollar.
A real modern day American.
Batman
2011-04-04 09:16:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by susan
I've been listening to him quite a bit - I like his style - no nonsense.
He's pissed the the Arab League isn't paying us for one thing.
He is stuck on this Obama birth certificate thing.
He just said that with a "Certificate of Live Birth" you can not get a
driver's license?
Exactly!!!!

If people would start taking this issue seriously, maybe it would
finally be resolved.

He's set himself up to play Kingmaker for the 2012 election.

Watch closely.

M
susan
2011-04-04 12:31:56 UTC
Permalink
David Letterman: "I made a lot of jokes about Donald Trump running for
president. ... But in all seriousness, I'm going to be making a lot more."
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