Discussion:
Where do all the online heros' go?
(too old to reply)
Tony Popejoy
2007-05-05 11:08:47 UTC
Permalink
    I was just curious for those that are big supporters of online poker. Where
do they go? I mean these are just a couple examples, but there are many. "The
Count" or Spirit Rock" and their are others but I don't follow along enough. If
it's so easy for them to win "millions" online, why don't they play everyday?
There are a million of these players I'm describing that come and go, but I'm
wondering why some ever end up broke, or quitting? Some might say that they take
breaks, or for the same reasons "pros" go broke in real life, or several other
excuses. You think 19 year old sensations like "durr" (current flavor of the
month...or year...or whatever) just come along and figure out something that
that top players don't already know? So where is the variance and why does it
take so long too catch up? More hands an hour... I know I know.. all the
excuses. I've heard em all. ANYONE that believes all of the shit you see online
is "random", is completely and utterly full of shit. I hope the government steps
in and regulates.... I just hope they step in with programmers and the whole
nine yards.
   Anyone who thinks EVERYTHING is on the "up and up" is out of touch with
reality. Party Poker wasn't, and I'm not saying everywhere else isn't
legitimate. I'm just wondering where all the ones that had it "figured out" go?
Probably retire to some nice island in the Caribbean... I know I will. For now,
just give me my little tourneys at the pokerstars, and all is well...well ;)

                                                                                
                        Tony Popejoy


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Gary Carson
2007-05-05 12:04:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Popejoy
    I was just curious for those that are big supporters of online poker. Where
do they go? I mean these are just a couple examples, but there are many. "The
Count" or Spirit Rock" and their are others but I don't follow along enough. If
it's so easy for them to win "millions" online, why don't they play everyday?
There are a million of these players I'm describing that come and go, but I'm
wondering why some ever end up broke, or quitting? Some might say that they take
breaks, or for the same reasons "pros" go broke in real life, or several other
excuses. You think 19 year old sensations like "durr" (current flavor of the
month...or year...or whatever) just come along and figure out something that
that top players don't already know? So where is the variance and why does it
take so long too catch up? More hands an hour... I know I know.. all the
excuses. I've heard em all. ANYONE that believes all of the shit you see online
is "random", is completely and utterly full of shit. I hope the government steps
in and regulates...
It's already regulated by the government.

It's just not the same government that gave you Katrina, Iraq, and Gitmo.



Gary Carson
http://www.garycarson.com



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DELETETHIS
2007-05-05 21:47:29 UTC
Permalink
I usually stay out of these but Gary you apparently have no clue what
"Gitmo" is all about. The prison there is a small part and IMHO
necessary but it is just one of smaller roles even if the recent press
might indicate that is the only reason it is there
Post by Gary Carson
It's just not the same government that gave you Katrina, Iraq, and Gitmo.
Gary Carson
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FL Turbo
2007-05-05 21:08:42 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 05 May 2007 15:47:29 -0600, DELETETHIS
Post by DELETETHIS
I usually stay out of these but Gary you apparently have no clue what
"Gitmo" is all about. The prison there is a small part and IMHO
necessary but it is just one of smaller roles even if the recent press
might indicate that is the only reason it is there
He doesn't even care to listen to any answers.
It would destroy one of his talking points.
Post by DELETETHIS
Post by Gary Carson
It's just not the same government that gave you Katrina, Iraq, and Gitmo.
Yeah.
A hurricane named Katrina is the fault of Bush.

That's not true.
It was Karl Rove that created the hurricane named Katrina.
Gary Carson
2007-05-06 03:10:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by DELETETHIS
I usually stay out of these but Gary you apparently have no clue what
"Gitmo" is all about. The prison there is a small part and IMHO
necessary but it is just one of smaller roles even if the recent press
might indicate that is the only reason it is there
I was in the Navy, you ingorant shit, I know about the Naval Base at Guantanamo
Bay.  I was a tincan Boatswain's Mate and I really wish I could have gotten a
port call there when I was in the Navy, but I was doomed to spending my port
time in boring places like DaNang Harbor, Subic Bay and Hong Kong. 

Trust me, Diego Garcia is not a satisfactory replacement for Subic Bay.

The term Gitmo has it roots as an affectionate term used by sailors to express
the joy of spending time at the Naval Base at Guantanamo Bay.  More recently
it's more often used by the public to refer to the Guantanamo Bay Detention
Camp. 

I was using it as short hand for torture of prisoners by the United States
Government.   Whether or not we "have to torture them there before they attack
us here", it doesn't seem that much of a stretch for us all to agree that
official torture of prisinors by the United States Government is a very sad
chapter in American history.
Post by DELETETHIS
Post by Gary Carson
It's just not the same government that gave you Katrina, Iraq, and Gitmo.
Gary Carson
http://www.garycarson.com
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2out3aintbad
2007-05-06 07:09:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary Carson
I was in the Navy, you ingorant shit, I know about the Naval Base at
And I for one am willing to thank you very much sir - for your service.
Post by Gary Carson
Gitmo
I was using it as short hand for torture of prisoners by the United States
It's not comparable to what they do to our guys and gals. It never is. They
torture, mutilate, rape, kill, skin alive, drag through the street, etc., etc.,
etc.
Post by Gary Carson
us here", it doesn't seem that much of a stretch for us all to agree that
official torture of prisinors by the United States Government is a very sad
chapter in American history.
Only if your stupid enough to still believe that old saw about how if we don't
torture them then they won't torture us. Its complete crap. They torture and
worse. All of them whether they are ragheads, commies, japs, nazi's what the
fuck ever... Only chumps still believe that we Americans should rise above it
just because we're Americans. Fuck them dirty cocksucking chunks of human filth.
They fuck over our guys - we should fuck over their guys. Fuck'em. Stab'em.
Kill'em. Fuck their brothers, fuck their sisters, fuck their mommies, fuck their
daddies, fuck their god. Fuck them all. If they live for but one reason - and
that is to kill Americans, Christians, Jews etc. (i.e- innocents just trying to
live their lives) - then fuck them and the horse they rode in on. Fuck them all.
Man, woman and child. Elderly, infirm, crippled or crazed. Fuck them, fuck them,
fuck them. Uh, I believe I've made my point.














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Ian Stuart
2007-05-06 09:54:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by 2out3aintbad
Post by Gary Carson
I was in the Navy, you ingorant shit, I know about the Naval Base at
And I for one am willing to thank you very much sir - for your service.
Post by Gary Carson
Gitmo
I was using it as short hand for torture of prisoners by the United States
It's not comparable to what they do to our guys and gals. It never is. They
torture, mutilate, rape, kill, skin alive, drag through the street, etc., etc.,
etc.
And you know "they" (i.e. the prisoners) did such things because.....? I
must have missed the trial that proved them guilty of such abhorrent acts.
Post by 2out3aintbad
Post by Gary Carson
us here", it doesn't seem that much of a stretch for us all to agree that
official torture of prisinors by the United States Government is a very sad
chapter in American history.
Only if your stupid enough to still believe that old saw about how if we don't
torture them then they won't torture us. Its complete crap.
OK you've sold it to me. It's clearly beyond doubt that, since the
establishment of Camp x-ray, attacks on American personnel by
insurgents/terrorists/AQ affiliated groups have all but fizzled out.
Post by 2out3aintbad
They torture and
worse.
They're terrorists, it's pretty much expected they will behave in that
manner. We, on the other hand, set ourselves out as civilised people who
believe in justice,human rights etc etc etc. We like to think that makes
us better than them. if only we actually practiced what we preach.
Post by 2out3aintbad
All of them whether they are ragheads, commies, japs, nazi's what the
fuck ever... Only chumps still believe that we Americans should rise above it
just because we're Americans.
Well, this chump would have liked to have believed you could rise above it
despite being Americans. It's not looking good so far though. You could
easily have prevailed without dropping your standards if your leaders had
half a clue about strategy. Unfortunately they don't seem to have half a
clue about anything, other than maximising war profits for their cronies.
Post by 2out3aintbad
Fuck them dirty cocksucking chunks of human filth.
They fuck over our guys - we should fuck over their guys. Fuck'em. Stab'em.
Kill'em. Fuck their brothers, fuck their sisters, fuck their mommies, fuck their
daddies, fuck their god. Fuck them all. If they live for but one reason - and
that is to kill Americans, Christians, Jews etc. (i.e- innocents just trying to
live their lives) - then fuck them and the horse they rode in on. Fuck them all.
Man, woman and child. Elderly, infirm, crippled or crazed. Fuck them, fuck them,
fuck them. Uh, I believe I've made my point.
You've made a point all right, though not the one you intended I suspect.

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2out3aintbad
2007-05-06 11:32:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Stuart
And you know "they" (i.e. the prisoners) did
And "they" (i.e - the terrorist...)
Post by Ian Stuart
must have missed the trial that proved them guilty of such abhorrent acts.
Listen you faggot little piece of brit - you know its true so give up on the
holier-than-thou routine. Just because you guys helped spread insurgent warfare
into every country you ever raped and pillaged back in the day does not mean
that we have to listen to your self-congratulatory BS now. Go eat dick you
despicable little cocksucker... You and your skanky old queen.
Post by Ian Stuart
OK you've sold it to me. It's clearly beyond doubt that, since the
establishment of Camp x-ray, attacks on American personnel by
insurgents/terrorists/AQ affiliated groups have all but fizzled out.
If they let me run the show I guarantee it'd fizzle. Snap and pop too.
Post by Ian Stuart
They're terrorists, it's pretty much expected they will behave in that
So we just allow them to get away with it? Jesus your a fucking idiot. An idiot
wrapped in an imbecile inside a fucktard...
Post by Ian Stuart
manner. We, on the other hand, set ourselves out as civilised people who
When attacked I'd rather win than stand around like a fool questioning our own
morality. Let's just kill those who want to kill us and then we'll slap each
other on the back and congratulate each other for being soooo civilized.
Post by Ian Stuart
believe in justice,human rights etc etc etc. We like to think that makes
us better than them.
Problem is that that is all we do. We 'beleive' it makes us better than them.
But we're not. And we're not going to be. We're all just humans. We're all
capable of horrific evil. I just see no fucking point in 'pretending' that it
not us - its them. They're the evil ones - LOL... In my personal opinion I
believe that if we would just agree to wipe their fucking asses off the face of
the earth before we start pretending to be better than them then we might
actually be able to become better than them. But not now. Not when they're
poking us with sticks and flying planes loaded with innocent civilians into
office building filled with innocent civilians.
Post by Ian Stuart
if only we actually practiced what we preach.
Kill'em now, preach about it latter...
Post by Ian Stuart
Well, this chump would have liked to have believed you could rise above it
Replace 'chump' with 'punk' and your gold...
Post by Ian Stuart
despite being Americans. It's not looking good so far though. You could
American envy - just like penis envy?
Post by Ian Stuart
easily have prevailed without dropping your standards if your leaders had
half a clue about strategy.
Yep, like when you guys decided it might be best to try to appease der fuhrer.
That worked well.
Post by Ian Stuart
Unfortunately they don't seem to have half a
clue about anything, other than maximising war profits for their cronies.
Right, not that the best way to increase war profits is to fight like little
nancy boys and drag it out to the next fucking century. Are you somehow thinking
that if we just fucking surrender and go home that that will be the end of it.
Praise allah - rotfflmfao...
Post by Ian Stuart
Post by 2out3aintbad
fuck them. Uh, I believe I've made my point.
You've made a point all right, though not the one you intended I suspect.
Well don't be to fucking sure of yourself there nancy boy. Cowardice is often an
unreliable fallback when your back is against the shari law...





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Ian Stuart
2007-05-07 11:04:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by 2out3aintbad
Post by Ian Stuart
And you know "they" (i.e. the prisoners) did
And "they" (i.e - the terrorist...)
Post by Ian Stuart
must have missed the trial that proved them guilty of such abhorrent acts.
Listen you faggot little piece of brit - you know its true so give up on the
holier-than-thou routine.
I don't know it's true, not if we are referring to the guilt of those
being indefinitely detained in Gitmo. I happen to belong to that old
fashioned school of thought that believes the burden of proof lies with
the accuser. So, until that guilt has been proven beyond reasonable doubt
in a fair and transparent manner I have no option but to consider all of
these detainees innocent. I don't like it, but that's the way it is.

Don't get me wrong. I'm pretty sure a number of them could be proven
guilty of terrorist activities, and if that is ever done you can hang
those individuals for all I care. But until such times I have to wonder
how many of the detainees are genuinely innocent because we just don't
know why they were detained. Was it purely on the say-so of a 20 year old
private who reckons any raghead with a rifle is a terrorist? Was it
because they fell foul of an unscrupulous neighbour attracted by the
reward dollars being handed out by the coalition forces? Was it because
they saw our troops as an invading enemy and tried to defend their land?
That would make them patriots, not terrorists and should at least entitle
them to POW treatment.
Post by 2out3aintbad
Just because you guys helped spread insurgent warfare
into every country you ever raped and pillaged back in the day does not mean
that we have to listen to your self-congratulatory BS now.
I really don't know how to respond to such inane dribble. Go read a
history book or two and come back when you have a clue. Ask an adult to
help you with the big words if you get stuck.
Post by 2out3aintbad
Go eat dick you
despicable little cocksucker... You and your skanky old queen.
Oh my gawd. He insulted the Queen. I'm cut to the quick, really I am.
Post by 2out3aintbad
Post by Ian Stuart
OK you've sold it to me. It's clearly beyond doubt that, since the
establishment of Camp x-ray, attacks on American personnel by
insurgents/terrorists/AQ affiliated groups have all but fizzled out.
If they let me run the show I guarantee it'd fizzle. Snap and pop too.
I doubt you could run a corner shop. Mind you, you'd probably still do a
better job than your current CIC so maybe we should give you a try.
Post by 2out3aintbad
Post by Ian Stuart
They're terrorists, it's pretty much expected they will behave in that
So we just allow them to get away with it? Jesus your a fucking idiot. An idiot
wrapped in an imbecile inside a fucktard...
Where did I say let them away with it? I didn't. I would like to be sure
we're punishing "them" though and not some poor unfortunate that happened
to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Post by 2out3aintbad
Post by Ian Stuart
manner. We, on the other hand, set ourselves out as civilised people who
When attacked I'd rather win than stand around like a fool questioning our own
morality. Let's just kill those who want to kill us and then we'll slap each
other on the back and congratulate each other for being soooo civilized.
So you'd rather blindly attack than stop and think. Why try to apply
intelligent thought to a situation when you know you're incapable of it
anyway, eh. That's how you end up with the unsolvable mess we've got on
our hands now. You're not an adviser to Dubya by any chance?
Post by 2out3aintbad
Post by Ian Stuart
believe in justice,human rights etc etc etc. We like to think that makes
us better than them.
Problem is that that is all we do. We 'beleive' it makes us better than them.
But we're not. And we're not going to be. We're all just humans. We're all
capable of horrific evil. I just see no fucking point in 'pretending' that it
not us - its them. They're the evil ones - LOL... In my personal opinion I
believe that if we would just agree to wipe their fucking asses off the face of
the earth before we start pretending to be better than them then we might
actually be able to become better than them.
But you don't even know who "they" are do you? I guess you must mean the
tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians that have died as a result of our
complete and utter failure to manage the situation we created. Still,
they're all just ragheads to you aint they. It's not like they're human
beings or anything so why give a shit. You should try wearing a rag on
your head sometime - would do you a world of good keeping the sun off your
neck.
Post by 2out3aintbad
But not now. Not when they're
poking us with sticks and flying planes loaded with innocent civilians into
office building filled with innocent civilians.
Poking with sticks isn't too far from the truth. The attacks of 911 were
perpetrated by a handful of men armed with nothing more sophisticated than
stanley knives. You don't beat people like that by sending in the marines.
I hinted at that in my earlier post when I suggested that those in charge
don't have a clue about strategy. That would be the bit that went over
your head I suppose. I guess it just got lost in amongst all the other
things that routinely go over your head.
Post by 2out3aintbad
Post by Ian Stuart
if only we actually practiced what we preach.
Kill'em now, preach about it latter...
Well, I guess if we kill enough people we're bound to get some of "them"
in the process. Pity some of ours have to die in the process, but I guess
the 3500+ coalition troops that have died so far are a price you're
willing to pay, fighting the war from your comfy chair.
Post by 2out3aintbad
Post by Ian Stuart
Well, this chump would have liked to have believed you could rise above it
Replace 'chump' with 'punk' and your gold...
Post by Ian Stuart
despite being Americans. It's not looking good so far though. You could
American envy - just like penis envy?
So you reckon "American" is synonymous with "penis"? There was a time I
would have strongly disagreed with you, but the more I get to talk to the
likes of you the more likely I am to come round to your way of thinking.
Post by 2out3aintbad
Post by Ian Stuart
easily have prevailed without dropping your standards if your leaders had
half a clue about strategy.
Yep, like when you guys decided it might be best to try to appease der fuhrer.
That worked well.
We tried that, it failed. We recognised our mistake and change tactics.
You could learn a lot from that. BTW, where were you guys when all this
was going on? We declared war when Germany invaded Poland, remember. As I
recall you didn't give a flying shit until it looked like the billions of
dollars you stood to make on the lend/lease deal might be forfeited if we
lost the war. It's all about the money eh?
Post by 2out3aintbad
Post by Ian Stuart
Unfortunately they don't seem to have half a
clue about anything, other than maximising war profits for their cronies.
Right, not that the best way to increase war profits is to fight like little
nancy boys and drag it out to the next fucking century. Are you somehow thinking
that if we just fucking surrender and go home that that will be the end of it.
Praise allah - rotfflmfao...
I'm sure you think there's a point in there somewhere, but I'm buggered if
I know what it is. Feel free to try again. Explain your thoughts to the
adult that's going to help you with those history books and see if he
can't help you make a coherent argument.
Post by 2out3aintbad
Post by Ian Stuart
Post by 2out3aintbad
fuck them. Uh, I believe I've made my point.
You've made a point all right, though not the one you intended I suspect.
Well don't be to fucking sure of yourself there nancy boy. Cowardice is often an
unreliable fallback when your back is against the shari law...
Now see there you go, clueless to the end. You see a criticism of a
poorly thought out aggressive response as a blanket criticism of
aggression. You don't get the "poorly thought out" aspect of it at all, do
you.

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2out3aintbad
2007-05-07 13:56:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Stuart
I happen to belong to that old
fashioned school of thought that believes the burden of proof lies with
the accuser. So, until that guilt has been proven beyond reasonable doubt
Blimey, nice try old chap. Unfortunately to a died in the wool coward such as
yourself and many of your countrymen (and regretably my own) there is no such
thing as 'beyond a reasonable doubt'. You pathetic cocksuckers will deny the
truth of the matter until the mullahs ban the bible and then you pathetic
cocksuckers will convert. Then they will behead you for sodomy and alls well.
Post by Ian Stuart
in a fair and transparent manner I have no option but to consider all of
these detainees innocent. I don't like it, but that's the way it is.
No - you do like it. You and your kind always do. You just don't have the balls
to stand up and admit it.
Post by Ian Stuart
Don't get me wrong. I'm pretty sure a number of them could be proven
guilty of terrorist activities, and if that is ever done you can hang
those individuals for all I care.
Heh, sometimes I feel the same way about Irish Mike. Then again his guys are
just standing tall against an occupying force. Aren't they old chap? By the way,
how many of those guys do you cocksuckers have locked up in your own gitmos?
Remember, the SAS doesn't exactly play fair themselves now do they? Ya
despicable son-of-a-bitch.
Post by Ian Stuart
how many of the detainees are genuinely innocent because we just don't
Well, according to Mike - all of them. Oh, you mean in gitmo - lol...
Post by Ian Stuart
know why they were detained. Was it purely on the say-so of a 20 year old
private who reckons any raghead with a rifle is a terrorist?
So you admit you have a problem with that. I seem to recall some photogr

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2out3aintbad
2007-05-07 14:27:27 UTC
Permalink
On May 7 2007 8:56 AM, 2out3aintbad wrote:

Crap my connection went away in the middle of that last post and it lost a lot
of really good stuff. However its not worth my time to try and recreate it over
the next 20 min. so in case your wondering, the rest of my reply pretty much
flows in the same vein as what made it through.

Basically it states the Ian is a dirty rotten cowardly cocksucker and everyone
who feels the way he does is too. Whether they are brits or Americans. They are
all a bunch of worthless pieces of shit that barely deserve any response at all
- because as you have seen - they are all a bunch of cowardly cocksuckers.

gotta go...

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Ian Stuart
2007-05-07 18:18:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by 2out3aintbad
Crap my connection went away in the middle of that last post and it lost a lot
of really good stuff.
I doubt that very much. So far you haven't managed a single credible
response to any of my points.
Post by 2out3aintbad
However its not worth my time to try and recreate it over
the next 20 min. so in case your wondering, the rest of my reply pretty much
flows in the same vein as what made it through.
More mindless, incoherent drivel interspersed with expletives in the vain
hope that they add some weight to your argument then. I'm so sorry it got
lost. Funny how you managed to get half your post over though. Why don't
you just admit your brain was aching trying in vain to think of ways to
counter my points.
Post by 2out3aintbad
Basically it states the Ian is a dirty rotten cowardly cocksucker and everyone
who feels the way he does is too. Whether they are brits or Americans. They are
all a bunch of worthless pieces of shit that barely deserve any response at all
- because as you have seen - they are all a bunch of cowardly cocksuckers.
gotta go...
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2out3aintbad
2007-05-07 18:58:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Stuart
Post by 2out3aintbad
Crap my connection went away in the middle of that last post and it lost a
lot
Post by 2out3aintbad
of really good stuff.
I doubt that very much. So far you haven't managed a single credible
response to any of my points.
Credibility is in the eye of the beholder fucktard - so far yours isn't holding
up very well from my end either. Imagine the odds ya feeble minded buffoon.
Post by Ian Stuart
you just admit your brain was aching trying in vain to think of ways to
counter my points.
Dream on Chambermaid... Your problem is that you just can't face the fact that
your not worth the trouble to discredit twice. If I felt you were a worthy
opponent (which of course your not due to your very argument) I'd take the time
- as it is though there's little point. Arguing with an idiot is just boring.
Seriously, grow some balls and we can talk. Til then take what ya get and be
happy. Your too boring to take seriously and too idiotic to interest anyone with
more than a primary school ticket.







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Gary Carson
2007-05-07 15:09:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by 2out3aintbad
Post by Ian Stuart
I happen to belong to that old
fashioned school of thought that believes the burden of proof lies with
the accuser. So, until that guilt has been proven beyond reasonable doubt
Blimey, nice try old chap. Unfortunately to a died in the wool coward such as
yourself and many of your countrymen (and regretably my own) there is no such
thing as 'beyond a reasonable doubt'. You pathetic cocksuckers will deny the
truth of the matter until the mullahs ban the bible and then you pathetic
cocksuckers will convert. Then they will behead you for sodomy and alls well.
Post by Ian Stuart
in a fair and transparent manner I have no option but to consider all of
these detainees innocent. I don't like it, but that's the way it is.
No - you do like it. You and your kind always do. You just don't have the balls
to stand up and admit it.
Post by Ian Stuart
Don't get me wrong. I'm pretty sure a number of them could be proven
guilty of terrorist activities, and if that is ever done you can hang
those individuals for all I care.
Heh, sometimes I feel the same way about Irish Mike.
Didn't Ireland opt out of WWII?



Gary Carson
http://www.garycarson.com



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Ian Stuart
2007-05-07 18:15:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by 2out3aintbad
Post by Ian Stuart
I happen to belong to that old
fashioned school of thought that believes the burden of proof lies with
the accuser. So, until that guilt has been proven beyond reasonable doubt
Blimey, nice try old chap. Unfortunately to a died in the wool coward such as
yourself and many of your countrymen (and regretably my own)
Many of my countrymen have died serving along side those of your
countrymen who have also lost their lifes in this farce that your beloved
leader dragged us into. I wouldn't call them cowards, but then I have
respect and gratitude for their sacrifice. Clearly you don't but that
doesn't really surprise me.
Post by 2out3aintbad
there is no such
thing as 'beyond a reasonable doubt'.
Actually there is and it's clearly defined in statute. Don't let the truth
get in the way of your incoherent ramblings though.
Post by 2out3aintbad
You pathetic cocksuckers will deny the
truth of the matter until the mullahs ban the bible and then you pathetic
cocksuckers will convert. Then they will behead you for sodomy and alls well.
I can't think of an effective response to such a classy argument. I'm
going to go out on a limb here and hazard a guess you weren't a key player
in an Ivey league debating team though.
Post by 2out3aintbad
Post by Ian Stuart
in a fair and transparent manner I have no option but to consider all of
these detainees innocent. I don't like it, but that's the way it is.
No - you do like it. You and your kind always do. You just don't have the balls
to stand up and admit it.
Post by Ian Stuart
Don't get me wrong. I'm pretty sure a number of them could be proven
guilty of terrorist activities, and if that is ever done you can hang
those individuals for all I care.
Heh, sometimes I feel the same way about Irish Mike. Then again his guys are
just standing tall against an occupying force. Aren't they old chap? By the way,
how many of those guys do you cocksuckers have locked up in your own gitmos?
Very few now as we've let them all go. Although you're just taking a wild
guess you actually got quite close there. We did have something akin to
Gitmo. It was quaintly called internment and involved the summary and
indefinite detention of anyone suspected of Republican links. No trial and
no right to appeal. Needless to say it only made the situation worse and
was eventually scrapped. It almost certainly did more to bolster IRA
support and recruitment than any other event in the history of the
troubles. Your leaders could have learned something from that mistake.
Post by 2out3aintbad
Remember, the SAS doesn't exactly play fair themselves now do they? Ya
despicable son-of-a-bitch.
Post by Ian Stuart
how many of the detainees are genuinely innocent because we just don't
Well, according to Mike - all of them. Oh, you mean in gitmo - lol...
Post by Ian Stuart
know why they were detained. Was it purely on the say-so of a 20 year old
private who reckons any raghead with a rifle is a terrorist?
So you admit you have a problem with that.
Uhm yes. I thought I made that perfectly clear.

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2out3aintbad
2007-05-07 18:15:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Stuart
Many of my countrymen have died serving along side those of your
countrymen who have also lost their lifes in this farce that your beloved
leader dragged us into. I wouldn't call them cowards, but then I have
respect and gratitude for their sacrifice. Clearly you don't but that
doesn't really surprise me.
Jesus your delusional. Just a guess - inbreeding? Was mum your pop's first or
second cousin?
Post by Ian Stuart
Actually there is and it's clearly defined in statute. Don't let the truth
get in the way of your incoherent ramblings though.
I'm just trying to weave my way through your twisted logic here Ian. Crap no
wonder you guys have so many problems. Surely she wasn't his sister?
Post by Ian Stuart
going to go out on a limb here and hazard a guess you weren't a key player
in an Ivey league debating team though.
Heh, Ivy league - I believe that would be W's area of expertise. Surely you
don't have hidden feelings of admiration for our boy now do you?
Post by Ian Stuart
Post by 2out3aintbad
how many of those guys do you cocksuckers have locked up in your own gitmos?
Very few now as we've let them all go. Although you're just taking a wild
guess
No way - we have this thing called PBS - they tell it like it is - lol...
Post by Ian Stuart
you actually got quite close there. We did have something akin to
Gitmo.
So its a pot, kettle, black thing. Jeez you really are a weak minded imbecile.
Post by Ian Stuart
It was quaintly called internment and involved the summary and
quaintly - lol... How-bout 'queerely' - lol...
Post by Ian Stuart
no right to appeal. Needless to say it only made the situation worse and
Well, its your party - what do you cocksuckers not make worse? Besides your
history - I mean?
Post by Ian Stuart
was eventually scrapped. It almost certainly did more to bolster IRA
support and recruitment than any other event in the history of the
troubles.
Uh, the way I hear it over here in the colonies is its the brits never-ending
meddling that's making everything worse. Why don't you goofy cocksuckers just
get the fuck out and see how that works. I mean what's the worst that could
happen? Peace would break out? Fucktard...
Post by Ian Stuart
Your leaders could have learned something from that mistake.
Yeah right - like our leaders look to you silly bastards for advice. We happen
to have a whole fucking world to run - You remember the world your guys fucked
up from one end to the other back in your day - uh, before we kicked your ass...
Viva-la Franz...
Post by Ian Stuart
Post by 2out3aintbad
Post by Ian Stuart
know why they were detained. Was it purely on the say-so of a 20 year old
private who reckons any raghead with a rifle is a terrorist?
So you admit you have a problem with that.
Uhm yes. I thought I made that perfectly clear.
Wrong Ian - nothing you say is clear. Psychotic perhaps, clear - not so much.
Now admit it, she was his sister wasn't she... Now its clear.



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Ian Stuart
2007-05-07 20:00:31 UTC
Permalink
You still haven't addressed any of my points, not a single one. You
haven't even tried.

I guess your brain can't cope with much more than hurling pre-schooler
abuse.

If you ever figure out how to have an adult debate give me a shout. Until
then ................................

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Ian Stuart
2007-05-07 18:34:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by 2out3aintbad
Heh, sometimes I feel the same way about Irish Mike. Then again his guys are
just standing tall against an occupying force. Aren't they old chap?
Thought I'd missed something. Yes, they were standing up to an occupying
force and much as I wish that wasn't true, that's the way it was.

For the record I am a protestant, I've served and I've lost a very good
friend to the IRA. I hate them with a vengeance but I cannot honestly put
my hand on my heart and say that had I been born Irish I wouldn't have
actively supported their cause. I don't agree with all their actions but I
can understand what they were fighting for. Thankfully it looks like both
sides have seen sense and realised it was a conflict neither could win.
Hopefully the troubles are in the past and Ireland, North and South, can
move on.

Before you all jump to condemn me for that sentiment you might want to
consider that in British eyes our enemy in what you call the Revolutionary
War were terrorists and insurgents. Do you think they should be condemned?
One mans terrorist etc etc.

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2out3aintbad
2007-05-07 18:25:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Stuart
Post by 2out3aintbad
Heh, sometimes I feel the same way about Irish Mike. Then again his guys are
just standing tall against an occupying force. Aren't they old chap?
Thought I'd missed something. Yes, they were standing up to an occupying
force and much as I wish that wasn't true, that's the way it was.
For the record I am a protestant, I've served and I've lost a very good
friend to the IRA. I hate them with a vengeance but I cannot honestly put
my hand on my heart and say that had I been born Irish I wouldn't have
actively supported their cause. I don't agree with all their actions but I
can understand what they were fighting for. Thankfully it looks like both
sides have seen sense and realised it was a conflict neither could win.
Hopefully the troubles are in the past and Ireland, North and South, can
move on.
Before you all jump to condemn me for that sentiment you might want to
consider that in British eyes our enemy in what you call the Revolutionary
War were terrorists and insurgents. Do you think they should be condemned?
One mans terrorist etc etc.
Damn - mow your trying to make us feel all queasy and mushy and stuff. All I ask
is a little loyalty from the ass-holes who will come begging us to pull their
asses out of the fire at some point in the future. You know its going to happen
again. As it stands now I'd have to tell you and yours to go fuck yourselves -
come what may. By the way - when facing east, mecca is a bit to your right. Make
sure you get that right cause those guys are not very tolerant and as things
stand now you grandchildren are going to need to know.









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Gary Carson
2007-05-07 15:06:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Stuart
Post by 2out3aintbad
Post by Ian Stuart
And you know "they" (i.e. the prisoners) did
And "they" (i.e - the terrorist...)
Post by Ian Stuart
must have missed the trial that proved them guilty of such abhorrent acts.
Listen you faggot little piece of brit - you know its true so give up on the
holier-than-thou routine.
I don't know it's true, not if we are referring to the guilt of those
being indefinitely detained in Gitmo. I happen to belong to that old
fashioned school of thought that believes the burden of proof lies with
the accuser. So, until that guilt has been proven beyond reasonable doubt
in a fair and transparent manner I have no option but to consider all of
these detainees innocent. I don't like it, but that's the way it is.
Don't get me wrong. I'm pretty sure a number of them could be proven
guilty of terrorist activities, and if that is ever done you can hang
those individuals for all I care. But until such times I have to wonder
how many of the detainees are genuinely innocent because we just don't
know why they were detained. Was it purely on the say-so of a 20 year old
private who reckons any raghead with a rifle is a terrorist? Was it
because they fell foul of an unscrupulous neighbour attracted by the
reward dollars being handed out by the coalition forces? Was it because
they saw our troops as an invading enemy and tried to defend their land?
That would make them patriots, not terrorists and should at least entitle
them to POW treatment.
We released a couple hundred of them without charges after only spending a
couple of years trying to torture them into admitting being part of the plot to
assasinate Lincoln.


Gary Carson
http://www.garycarson.com



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2out3aintbad
2007-05-07 18:32:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary Carson
We released a couple hundred of them without charges after only spending a
couple of years trying to torture them into admitting being part of the plot to
assasinate Lincoln.
Like we need an excuse - makes me proud to be an American. At least they deserve
an 'E' for effort ya muddled headed moron. Get back on your meds before the
boogie man comes and hurts your feelings again... boohoo... Whats it like to be
sick and tired of being sick and tired your whole fucking life Gary?



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Gary Carson
2007-05-06 09:04:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by 2out3aintbad
Post by Gary Carson
I was in the Navy, you ingorant shit, I know about the Naval Base at
And I for one am willing to thank you very much sir - for your service.
Post by Gary Carson
Gitmo
I was using it as short hand for torture of prisoners by the United States
It's not comparable to what they do to our guys and gals. It never is. They
torture, mutilate, rape, kill, skin alive, drag through the street, etc., etc.,
etc.
I don't give a shit if it's comparable or not.

What we do is either honorable or it's not.  If it can't stand up on it's own as
the right thing to do then it just doesn't matter how bad the other guy behaves.

Torture is pointless and it's wrong.
Post by 2out3aintbad
Post by Gary Carson
us here", it doesn't seem that much of a stretch for us all to agree that
official torture of prisinors by the United States Government is a very sad
chapter in American history.
Only if your stupid enough to still believe that old saw about how if we don't
torture them then they won't torture us.
Huh?

What the hell does that have to do with it?

Do you have any moral fiber at all?
Post by 2out3aintbad
Its complete crap. They torture and
worse. All of them whether they are ragheads, commies, japs, nazi's what the
fuck ever... Only chumps still believe that we Americans should rise above it
just because we're Americans. Fuck them dirty cocksucking chunks of human filth.
They fuck over our guys - we should fuck over their guys. Fuck'em. Stab'em.
Kill'em. Fuck their brothers, fuck their sisters, fuck their mommies, fuck their
daddies, fuck their god. Fuck them all. If they live for but one reason - and
that is to kill Americans, Christians, Jews etc. (i.e- innocents just trying to
live their lives) - then fuck them and the horse they rode in on. Fuck them all.
I see.

You make us all proud to be Americans.



Gary Carson
http://www.garycarson.com



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2out3aintbad
2007-05-06 10:44:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary Carson
I don't give a shit if it's comparable or not.
What we do is either honorable or it's not.  If it can't stand up on it's own as
the right thing to do then it just doesn't matter how bad the other guy behaves.
Well I guess as long as it leaves our guys at a disadvantage its OK with you,
right? Listen Gary, I hate having to pick on guys like you because your such a
head case and all but you just seem to revel in our troops misery soooo much. If
it weren't for the head case thing I'd have to question your service. After all,
it was either serve or Canada wasn't it?
Post by Gary Carson
Torture is pointless and it's wrong.
Which is why they and everybody else does it, right. Good point. In war there is
something to be said for making your enemy fear you. To make them fear being
captured by you. To make them fear to fight you. The lack of instilling such
fear in our enemies is why we have so goddamn many of them. They know that once
they throw up their hands that they'll be fed and cared for. Not fucking skinned
alive. Not raped. Not draged through the street like garbage.
Post by Gary Carson
Do you have any moral fiber at all?
An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. Hell, I practically invented moral fiber
- ya sum-bitch. Or at least I read about it somewhere.
Post by Gary Carson
I see.
You make us all proud to be Americans.
Nothing would make you proud to be an American Carson. It why your such a tard
at times.








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t***@hotmail.com
2007-05-06 13:47:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by 2out3aintbad
Post by Gary Carson
I was in the Navy, you ingorant shit, I know about the Naval Base at
And I for one am willing to thank you very much sir - for your service.
Post by Gary Carson
Gitmo
I was using it as short hand for torture of prisoners by the United States
It's not comparable to what they do to our guys and gals. It never is. They
torture, mutilate, rape, kill, skin alive, drag through the street, etc., etc.,
etc.
Post by Gary Carson
us here", it doesn't seem that much of a stretch for us all to agree that
official torture of prisinors by the United States Government is a very sad
chapter in American history.
Only if your stupid enough to still believe that old saw about how if we don't
torture them then they won't torture us. Its complete crap. They torture and
worse. All of them whether they are ragheads, commies, japs, nazi's what the
fuck ever... Only chumps still believe that we Americans should rise above it
just because we're Americans. Fuck them dirty cocksucking chunks of human filth.
They fuck over our guys - we should fuck over their guys. Fuck'em. Stab'em.
Kill'em. Fuck their brothers, fuck their sisters, fuck their mommies, fuck their
daddies, fuck their god. Fuck them all. If they live for but one reason - and
that is to kill Americans, Christians, Jews etc. (i.e- innocents just trying to
live their lives) - then fuck them and the horse they rode in on. Fuck them all.
Man, woman and child. Elderly, infirm, crippled or crazed. Fuck them, fuck them,
fuck them. Uh, I believe I've made my point.
_______________________________________________________________
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I'm embarassed for you. Your inability to reason, and your bigoted
statements are a prime example of whats wrong in America these days.
Why are you hurting America?

Let me guess, you're part of the 19% that still supports Dubya.
2out3aintbad
2007-05-06 16:24:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by t***@hotmail.com
I'm embarassed for you.
I'm embarrassed for your momma...
Post by t***@hotmail.com
statements are a prime example of whats wrong in America these days.
The only thing wrong with America these days are all the liberal cocksucking
cowards who just can't help but blame all our troubles on all of our troubles. I
say bring back the anti-sedition laws and lets lock all you treasonous
cocksuckers up.
Post by t***@hotmail.com
Why are you hurting America?
Tough love. Why are you helping the terrorist?
Post by t***@hotmail.com
Let me guess, you're part of the 19% that still supports Dubya.
I support anybody who supports killing muslim terrorist and their sympathizers
and apologist. Especially those with the wherewithal to engineer situation that
end up with muslims killing other muslims. Them's the best kind. And its 28% you
dumb cocksucker.






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t***@hotmail.com
2007-05-07 15:46:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by 2out3aintbad
Post by t***@hotmail.com
I'm embarassed for you.
I'm embarrassed for your momma...
Clever!
Post by 2out3aintbad
Post by t***@hotmail.com
statements are a prime example of whats wrong in America these days.
The only thing wrong with America these days are all the liberal cocksucking
cowards who just can't help but blame all our troubles on all of our troubles.
Your logic is very convincing.
Post by 2out3aintbad
say bring back the anti-sedition laws and lets lock all you treasonous
cocksuckers up.
Good! Its about time someone seriuosly brought up taking away the 1st
amendment!
Post by 2out3aintbad
Post by t***@hotmail.com
Why are you hurting America?
Tough love. Why are you helping the terrorist?
So you admit to hurting America? Terrorist!
Post by 2out3aintbad
Post by t***@hotmail.com
Let me guess, you're part of the 19% that still supports Dubya.
I support anybody who supports killing muslim terrorist and their sympathizers
and apologist. Especially those with the wherewithal to engineer situation that
end up with muslims killing other muslims. Them's the best kind. And its 28% you
dumb cocksucker.
Hope hell treats you right!
Post by 2out3aintbad
_______________________________________________________________
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2out3aintbad
2007-05-07 18:43:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by t***@hotmail.com
Your logic is very convincing.
Your treason is very obvious... Where have you hid the plans for your bomb - The
DHLS needs to know...
Post by t***@hotmail.com
Good! Its about time someone seriuosly brought up taking away the 1st
amendment!
Well I've always said that I'd consider giving up my 2nd amendment rights after
you silly cocksuckers give up your 1st amendment rights. Fair trade?
Post by t***@hotmail.com
Post by 2out3aintbad
Post by t***@hotmail.com
Why are you hurting America?
Tough love. Why are you helping the terrorist?
So you admit to hurting America? Terrorist!
Well if you define a nation by its current majority then yes I am hurting the
cowardly leftwing liberal cocksucking commies of America who want to help the
terrorist by cutting and running from a mismanaged battlefield...

Again, why is it that you want to help the terrorist?
Post by t***@hotmail.com
Hope hell treats you right!
Trust me, its not really a concern for me. You however may have to burn before
you can live again. Islam is funny that way.


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t***@hotmail.com
2007-05-07 20:57:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by 2out3aintbad
Post by t***@hotmail.com
Your logic is very convincing.
Your treason is very obvious... Where have you hid the plans for your bomb - The
DHLS needs to know...
You snip the part where you claim "The only thing wrong with America
these days are all the liberal cocksucking
cowards who just can't help but blame all our troubles on all of our
troubles."

Still stand behind that pearl of wisdom?
Post by 2out3aintbad
Post by t***@hotmail.com
Good! Its about time someone seriuosly brought up taking away the 1st
amendment!
Well I've always said that I'd consider giving up my 2nd amendment rights after
you silly cocksuckers give up your 1st amendment rights. Fair trade?
Why is that a "fair trade"? Logic is not your strong suit...
Post by 2out3aintbad
Post by t***@hotmail.com
Post by 2out3aintbad
Post by t***@hotmail.com
Why are you hurting America?
Tough love. Why are you helping the terrorist?
So you admit to hurting America? Terrorist!
Well if you define a nation by its current majority then yes I am hurting the
cowardly leftwing liberal cocksucking commies of America who want to help the
terrorist by cutting and running from a mismanaged battlefield...
So, you admit to hurting America? The men in black suits will be at
your door in a minute.
Post by 2out3aintbad
Again, why is it that you want to help the terrorist?
Post by t***@hotmail.com
Hope hell treats you right!
Trust me, its not really a concern for me.
Bad news, God told me it is...
Post by 2out3aintbad
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2out3aintbad
2007-05-08 09:46:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by t***@hotmail.com
You snip the part where you claim "The only thing wrong with America
I snip a lot of parts - you should give it a try sometime... But please do try
to keep up - k?
Post by t***@hotmail.com
cowards who just can't help but blame all our troubles on all of our
troubles."
Still stand behind that pearl of wisdom?
Please, just because its over your head doesn't mean the rest of us can't enjoy
it.
Post by t***@hotmail.com
Post by 2out3aintbad
Well I've always said that I'd consider giving up my 2nd amendment rights after
you silly cocksuckers give up your 1st amendment rights. Fair trade?
Why is that a "fair trade"? Logic is not your strong suit...
Didn't say it was a fair trade. I simply asked if you thought it was. After all,
its always you little faggots who are wringing your hands over what might happen
if your unable to take away our 2nd amendment rights. All I ask is would you be
willing to give up your 1st amendment rights in order to do it. Again, try to
pay attention.
Post by t***@hotmail.com
Post by 2out3aintbad
Well if you define a nation by its current majority then yes I am hurting the
cowardly leftwing liberal cocksucking commies of America who want to help the
terrorist by cutting and running from a mismanaged battlefield...
So, you admit to hurting America? The men in black suits will be at
your door in a minute.
Nah, those guys are all on my side the fence. You however may want to keep an
eye out for their little black whirlybirds. They will be paying you a visit
soon. Ya cocksucking terrorist.
Post by t***@hotmail.com
Post by 2out3aintbad
Post by t***@hotmail.com
Hope hell treats you right!
Trust me, its not really a concern for me.
Bad news, God told me it is...
Figures, you do sound delusional...





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Schutter Family
2007-05-06 18:52:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by 2out3aintbad
Post by Gary Carson
I was in the Navy, you ingorant shit, I know about the Naval Base at
And I for one am willing to thank you very much sir - for your service.
Post by Gary Carson
Gitmo
I was using it as short hand for torture of prisoners by the United States
It's not comparable to what they do to our guys and gals. It never is. They
torture, mutilate, rape, kill, skin alive, drag through the street, etc., etc.,
etc.
Post by Gary Carson
us here", it doesn't seem that much of a stretch for us all to agree that
official torture of prisinors by the United States Government is a very sad
chapter in American history.
Only if your stupid enough to still believe that old saw about how if we don't
torture them then they won't torture us. Its complete crap. They torture and
worse. All of them whether they are ragheads, commies, japs, nazi's what the
fuck ever... Only chumps still believe that we Americans should rise above it
just because we're Americans. Fuck them dirty cocksucking chunks of human filth.
They fuck over our guys - we should fuck over their guys. Fuck'em. Stab'em.
Kill'em. Fuck their brothers, fuck their sisters, fuck their mommies, fuck their
daddies, fuck their god. Fuck them all. If they live for but one reason - and
that is to kill Americans, Christians, Jews etc. (i.e- innocents just trying to
live their lives) - then fuck them and the horse they rode in on. Fuck them all.
Man, woman and child. Elderly, infirm, crippled or crazed. Fuck them, fuck them,
fuck them. Uh, I believe I've made my point.
_______________________________________________________________
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While your words are harsh they are true. Unfortunately ,like Bin laden
has told his people , Americans are not warriors and can be defeated
politically. You are seeing that happing now by people who think that
our country not being attacked in 6 years , just happened and isn't a
result of aggressive action against terriosits in Iraq. We are at war
and most of America has gone back to sleep. Al Queda has promised
recently that the next attack will be greater than Hiroshima.Will it
take that for our country to realize that you cant negotiate with people
who wont negotiate? Looking around ,from what i see , yes.
A Man Beaten by Jacks
2007-05-06 21:09:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Schutter Family
While your words are harsh they are true. Unfortunately ,like Bin laden
has told his people , Americans are not warriors and can be defeated
politically.
War *is* politics.

Anyone who doesn't realize that is doomed to lose.
FL Turbo
2007-05-06 15:03:16 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 06 May 07 3:10:21 GMT, Gary Carson
Post by Gary Carson
Post by DELETETHIS
I usually stay out of these but Gary you apparently have no clue what
"Gitmo" is all about. The prison there is a small part and IMHO
necessary but it is just one of smaller roles even if the recent press
might indicate that is the only reason it is there
I was in the Navy, you ingorant shit, I know about the Naval Base at Guantanamo
Bay.  I was a tincan Boatswain's Mate and I really wish I could have gotten a
port call there when I was in the Navy, but I was doomed to spending my port
time in boring places like DaNang Harbor, Subic Bay and Hong Kong. 
Trust me, Diego Garcia is not a satisfactory replacement for Subic Bay.
Yeah.
Tell us all about the hardships you endured.

Tell us about Subic Bay.
So far, we have stories from Jesse (the brain) Ventura, the former
Governator of Minnesota.

He told everyone about those "little brown sex machines" in the
Philippines.

Did they turn you into a flaccid mass of exhausted flesh like they did
to Jesse?

I can feel your pain all the way over here.
Post by Gary Carson
The term Gitmo has it roots as an affectionate term used by sailors to express
the joy of spending time at the Naval Base at Guantanamo Bay.  More recently
it's more often used by the public to refer to the Guantanamo Bay Detention
Camp. 
I was using it as short hand for torture of prisoners by the United States
Government.   Whether or not we "have to torture them there before they attack
us here", it doesn't seem that much of a stretch for us all to agree that
official torture of prisinors by the United States Government is a very sad
chapter in American history.
Oh, really?
Tell us all about the tortures that the terrorist scumbags in Gitmo
have suffered.

Then tell us about the treatment given to prisoners at the Hanoi
Hilton.
Tell us all about Fidel Castro's prisons.

Frankly, my boy, I have long since lost patience with the thumb
suckers and hand wringers that whinge about those poor, innocent
scumbags imprisoned at Gitmo.

Anyone needs only to go inland to the wonderful land of Fidel Castro
and his prisons to make me cry.
mo_charles
2007-05-07 20:06:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by FL Turbo
Frankly, my boy, I have long since lost patience with the thumb
suckers and hand wringers that whinge about those poor, innocent
scumbags imprisoned at Gitmo.
democrats were too busy fighting for their right to lynch negroes to
bother protesting a republican lincoln's supension of habeas corpus the
first time around. they're working up a head of steam!

mo_charles

_______________________________________________________________________ 
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com
Beuksux
2007-05-05 13:18:56 UTC
Permalink
C'mon Tony,

didn't you know all the folks running online poker around the world gathered
together and held a huge summit, pledging to one another that their primary
objective was not profit, but to provide you, John Q. Public with the cleanest,
fairest game possible?

there's no greed at play here, because they're not in it for the money, they
just love poker. besides, humans are a perfectly selfless lot, and we're all
inherenty honest.

history has shown us that people who sell or provide 'vices' to the general
public to be most trustworthy, and have the track record to back it up whether
it's drugs, hookers, gambling, cigarettes, or what have you.

it's obvious you know nothing about human nature, you silly, silly, man.
Post by Tony Popejoy
    I was just curious for those that are big supporters of online poker. Where
do they go? I mean these are just a couple examples, but there are many. "The
Count" or Spirit Rock" and their are others but I don't follow along enough. If
it's so easy for them to win "millions" online, why don't they play everyday?
There are a million of these players I'm describing that come and go, but I'm
wondering why some ever end up broke, or quitting? Some might say that they take
breaks, or for the same reasons "pros" go broke in real life, or several other
excuses. You think 19 year old sensations like "durr" (current flavor of the
month...or year...or whatever) just come along and figure out something that
that top players don't already know? So where is the variance and why does it
take so long too catch up? More hands an hour... I know I know.. all the
excuses. I've heard em all. ANYONE that believes all of the shit you see online
is "random", is completely and utterly full of shit. I hope the government steps
in and regulates.... I just hope they step in with programmers and the whole
nine yards.
   Anyone who thinks EVERYTHING is on the "up and up" is out of touch with
reality. Party Poker wasn't, and I'm not saying everywhere else isn't
legitimate. I'm just wondering where all the ones that had it "figured out" go?
Probably retire to some nice island in the Caribbean... I know I will. For now,
just give me my little tourneys at the pokerstars, and all is well...well ;)
                                                                             
 &nbs
p;                         Tony Popejoy
_______________________________________________________________
New Feature: Mark All As Read! - http://www.recpoker.com
b***@msn.com
2007-05-06 04:31:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Beuksux
C'mon Tony,
didn't you know all the folks running online poker around the world gathered
together and held a huge summit, pledging to one another that their primary
objective was not profit, but to provide you, John Q. Public with the cleanest,
fairest game possible?
there's no greed at play here, because they're not in it for the money, they
just love poker. besides, humans are a perfectly selfless lot, and we're all
inherenty honest.
history has shown us that people who sell or provide 'vices' to the general
public to be most trustworthy, and have the track record to back it up whether
it's drugs, hookers, gambling, cigarettes, or what have you.
it's obvious you know nothing about human nature, you silly, silly, man.
POTD...........D as in Decade. Totally laughed my ass off. Wish I
could have said it as well.


Bud
Exmoorbeast
2007-05-05 14:11:55 UTC
Permalink
Good post .... and it is all so true

_______________________________________________________________
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ShuffletownKid
2007-05-05 17:12:19 UTC
Permalink
"Exmoorbeast" <***@recpoker.com> wrote in message news:1178374315$***@recpoker.com...
| Good post .... and it is all so true
|
| _______________________________________________________________


Thank you.
Beuksux
2007-05-05 14:16:46 UTC
Permalink
 ANYONE that believes all of the shit you see
Post by Tony Popejoy
online
is "random", is completely and utterly full of shit. I hope the government steps
in and regulates.... I just hope they step in with programmers and the whole
nine yards.
   Anyone who thinks EVERYTHING is on the "up and up" is out of touch with
reality.
rather then embroil myself once again in this discussion that will, and has
continued 'ad nauseum', i'll leave it like this:

we know a few things:

1- the technology to 'simulate' random events via computer programming is quite
common.
2- online poker sites are run by human beings, each of whom has their own
character, morals, and priorities.

can't really dispute these facts.

bottom line is, people who are proponents of the fairness of online poker have
chosen to vouch for the character of people they've never met and know nothing
about. period.

personally, i need to meet someone and get to know them before i'll vouch for
their character and trust them (ie: with my money). maybe i'm a skeptic, perhaps
a cynic, but it's a common sense philosophy i choose to stick to. i don't trust
people i don't know.

If some strange guy comes up to me and says, 'Hey, buddy, i need a job, can you
go into work and ask your boss to hire me? I'm a hard worker and a good guy. Can
you help me out"?

Am i gonna go into my boss and vouch for this guy i just met? Not a chance.

Then again, i have a friend who's a stockbroker. he cold calls people out of
thin air, pitches a stock, and asks them to send him money. then he proceeds to
put their money in some stock he basically knows nothing about, sometimes he
wins but a lot of times he loses their money; and regardless, he gets his rake.
but the bottom line is, he gets strangers to send him their money over the
phone.

when it comes to matters of MY money, i'm a guilty until proven innocent person.

like i said, maybe i'm a cynic, but i'm not sending some stranger my money. as
such, i'm not putting any significant amount of cash into an online poker
account. i play for nickels and dimes online, but i won't think twice about
throwing down $500 cash into a B&M game.

but, what can i say, to each his own.


_______________________________________________________________
Your Online Poker Community - http://www.recpoker.com
TheRealPicard
2007-05-05 21:57:21 UTC
Permalink
I'm right here...

www.picardspokerwinnings.blogspot.com
Post by Tony Popejoy
I was just curious for those that are big supporters of online poker.
Where
do they go? I mean these are just a couple examples, but there are many. "The
Count" or Spirit Rock" and their are others but I don't follow along enough. If
it's so easy for them to win "millions" online, why don't they play everyday?
There are a million of these players I'm describing that come and go, but I'm
wondering why some ever end up broke, or quitting? Some might say that they take
breaks, or for the same reasons "pros" go broke in real life, or several other
excuses. You think 19 year old sensations like "durr" (current flavor of the
month...or year...or whatever) just come along and figure out something that
that top players don't already know? So where is the variance and why does it
take so long too catch up? More hands an hour... I know I know.. all the
excuses. I've heard em all. ANYONE that believes all of the shit you see online
is "random", is completely and utterly full of shit. I hope the government steps
in and regulates.... I just hope they step in with programmers and the whole
nine yards.
Anyone who thinks EVERYTHING is on the "up and up" is out of touch with
reality. Party Poker wasn't, and I'm not saying everywhere else isn't
legitimate. I'm just wondering where all the ones that had it "figured out" go?
Probably retire to some nice island in the Caribbean... I know I will. For now,
just give me my little tourneys at the pokerstars, and all is well...well ;)
Tony Popejoy
_______________________________________________________________
New Feature: Mark All As Read! - http://www.recpoker.com
doggystyle
2007-05-05 23:53:13 UTC
Permalink
WHAT A MORON POOPJOY MUST BE. HE SPENDS 2 PARAGRAPHS MAKING A "SANE" ARGUEMENT
ABOUT ON-LINE AND GETTING CHEATED , AND THEN HE SAYS "i WIIL BE PLAYING ON LINE
". WHAT KIND OF MORON WOULD ADMIT TO PLAYING SOME PLACE WHERE HE THINKS HE IS
GETTING CHEATED?? NO WONDER POKER IS SO GREAT RIGHT NOW !!!
Post by Tony Popejoy
    I was just curious for those that are big supporters of online poker. Where
do they go? I mean these are just a couple examples, but there are many. "The
Count" or Spirit Rock" and their are others but I don't follow along enough. If
it's so easy for them to win "millions" online, why don't they play everyday?
There are a million of these players I'm describing that come and go, but I'm
wondering why some ever end up broke, or quitting? Some might say that they take
breaks, or for the same reasons "pros" go broke in real life, or several other
excuses. You think 19 year old sensations like "durr" (current flavor of the
month...or year...or whatever) just come along and figure out something that
that top players don't already know? So where is the variance and why does it
take so long too catch up? More hands an hour... I know I know.. all the
excuses. I've heard em all. ANYONE that believes all of the shit you see online
is "random", is completely and utterly full of shit. I hope the government steps
in and regulates.... I just hope they step in with programmers and the whole
nine yards.
   Anyone who thinks EVERYTHING is on the "up and up" is out of touch with
reality. Party Poker wasn't, and I'm not saying everywhere else isn't
legitimate. I'm just wondering where all the ones that had it "figured out" go?
Probably retire to some nice island in the Caribbean... I know I will. For now,
just give me my little tourneys at the pokerstars, and all is well...well ;)
                                                                             
 &nbs
p;                         Tony Popejoy
_______________________________________________________________
Watch Lists, Block Lists, Favorites - http://www.recpoker.com
prematuregray_58
2007-05-06 01:28:40 UTC
Permalink
If you dont know where the online players obviously you have not taken
a taxi lately
Super Steamer
2007-05-06 00:22:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Popejoy
    I was just curious for those that are big supporters of online poker. Where
do they go? I mean these are just a couple examples, but there are many. "The
Count" or Spirit Rock" and their are others but I don't follow along enough. If
it's so easy for them to win "millions" online, why don't they play everyday?
A lot of the people with very high gross wins have very terrible net results,
but I am not going to post their names.   

_______________________________________________________________
Watch Lists, Block Lists, Favorites - http://www.recpoker.com
JG
2007-05-06 05:55:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Popejoy
I was just curious for those that are big supporters of online poker. Where
do they go? I mean these are just a couple examples, but there are many. "The
Count" or Spirit Rock" and their are others but I don't follow along enough. If
it's so easy for them to win "millions" online, why don't they play everyday?
There are definitely some outstanding poker players at the online high
limits. The vast majority are flashes in the pan, however, in my
opinion.

I am not surprised that every few months a new online 'star' is born.
The explanation is pretty simple: the games are way more aggressive
online, and these guys are not afraid in the least to push their chips
around, or to gamble it up. Which means if they are running hot, they
are going to make a ton of cash in the short term. Eventually, they
cash some money out, and variance ends up taking their remaining
bankroll (as far as I can tell, at least).

A few of these high-stakes online players have made the transition to
becoming legitimate live players, the most notable example being
Patrik Antonius. Some live players, like Phil Ivey and David
Benyamine, are doing the opposite and have been tearing it up online
(Benyamine is making *millions* playing online PLO).

A couple of young online players who are the real deal include
'sbrugby' (Brian Townsend) and 'Ozzy 87' (Aurangzeb Sheikh -- a 19-
year-old kid with tremendous raw talent and the discipline to go with
it,) 'Green Plastic' (Taylor Caby) is also legitimate. However, all
these guys have yet to prove themselves live, and they are not all-
around poker players (mostly they play NLHE and PLO).

JG
Tony Popejoy
2007-05-06 08:31:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by JG
Post by Tony Popejoy
I was just curious for those that are big supporters of online poker. Where
do they go? I mean these are just a couple examples, but there are many. "The
Count" or Spirit Rock" and their are others but I don't follow along enough. If
it's so easy for them to win "millions" online, why don't they play everyday?
There are definitely some outstanding poker players at the online high
limits. The vast majority are flashes in the pan, however, in my
opinion.
I am not surprised that every few months a new online 'star' is born.
The explanation is pretty simple: the games are way more aggressive
online, and these guys are not afraid in the least to push their chips
around, or to gamble it up. Which means if they are running hot, they
are going to make a ton of cash in the short term. Eventually, they
cash some money out, and variance ends up taking their remaining
bankroll (as far as I can tell, at least).
A few of these high-stakes online players have made the transition to
becoming legitimate live players, the most notable example being
Patrik Antonius. Some live players, like Phil Ivey and David
Benyamine, are doing the opposite and have been tearing it up online
(Benyamine is making *millions* playing online PLO).
A couple of young online players who are the real deal include
'sbrugby' (Brian Townsend) and 'Ozzy 87' (Aurangzeb Sheikh -- a 19-
year-old kid with tremendous raw talent and the discipline to go with
it,) 'Green Plastic' (Taylor Caby) is also legitimate. However, all
these guys have yet to prove themselves live, and they are not all-
around poker players (mostly they play NLHE and PLO).
JG
   I like your thinking believe it or not. My question was kind of a rhetorical
one, as I'm smart enough to know the real players from the flashes, although I'm
sometimes wrong. I think a "flash" actually occurred last year at the wsop with
a young man winning a couple bracelets... and yes I think he's a flash. He'll
settle back into mid-limit pro respectability, living off of a few endorsements
and the opportunities they afford to play more tourneys. The more you play, the
more likely it is that eventually you'll hit something. That's why I like
statistics like tourneys entered vs. cashes, or something to that degree. One
third of the full tilt "professionals" and 90 percent of the pokerstars
"professionals" are actual proof that talent isn't a major requirement to make
money playing poker. Nor, perhaps, should it be in advertising for online poker
sites.
    I actually will watch young professionals like Brian Townsend ( I actually
read his blog). And although I don't think they are "flashes in the pan" by any
stretch of the imagination, I think it's a fine line anyway between being a
"professional", and a good player not interested in the lifestyle ( I put myself
in the latter). Also, I know with the tiniest possible leak, 90 percent of these
"online names", will later at one point go broke and realize that perhaps
"online" variance" was the only thing keeping them afloat for their incredible
streaks. I'm actually astounded by some of Brians posts about some of his big
wins and loses ! And actually I think allot of these guys will go on to prove
that online was their stepping stone ( ie: Justin bonoman (who is obviously
going to take awhile to get financial backing "officially " from an online
site). I think he is a very serious student, and although I haven't played with
him, I think he can go as far as he wants in poker, as can most with above
average intelligence in the areas that make a "strong" professional,.....
strong.
   I guess I just wonder allot about online and what I see more and more on a
daily basis. I should say that I watch some of the bigger limits at "Full tilt"
and although I don't play, I don't see allot of "funny stuff".. So maybe it's a
pick and choose situation with these online sites. What got me thinking was that
I was backing a "professional" online who was once considered one of the finest
limit hold em players on the planet, and cut his teeth playing in limit hold em
games in the 80s (yes I'm dating things) with "Todd Brunson, Jennifer Harmon,
Lenny Martin" Etc etc etc at the 15-30 level !  Now he plays as masterfully as
he did then (probably better in a controlled environment), and the results
aren't nearly the same, nor is the variance. Yes, I 've factored in variance and
all the other "online" factors, and to him and I, something just didn't add up.
I should point out that this "experiment" took place at "Party Poker" so you can
further deduct that he is non-American... maybe ;)  And I also included the fact
that I have a hard time EVER losing live at limit hold em (and actually consider
it one of my better games), but yet I struggle to break even at pathetic levels
at "stars"? Same with 3 draw 2-7 which is DEFINITELY one of my best games, and
there aren't 10 players in the world that play the game better.... including the
big game players. PERIOD. But yet once again winning at 15-30 at "stars" proves
to be difficult. I'm saving allot of hand histories, and I hope to expound at
some point on some of the things I see, ESPECIALLY in the low limit pot limit
Omaha, with UNFOLDABLE hands vs. all-in players, and the miracle cards that bail
them out. I just want to figure out things so I can make more money online
obviously ;)  Actually, I don't even care if I play another hand of poker
online, or in real life for that matter. I just like to play my best when I
do.... these days ;)  and I want my results to reflect my effort and skill
level. Maybe that's it, I'm just playing to high for my skill level online ? ;) 
Probably...... Oh well.... just blabbing..... nice answer by the way. Good luck.

                                                                                
                 Tony Popejoy


_______________________________________________________________
Block Lists, Favorites, and more - http://www.recpoker.com
N. Silver
2007-05-06 12:07:15 UTC
Permalink
And I also included the fact that I have a hard time EVER
losing live at limit hold em (and actually consider it one of
my better games), but yet I struggle to break even at pathetic
levels at "stars"?
You are filled with yourself, Tony. At 'Stars, the games online are
faster, meaning you get into the long run much quicker, the deals
are truer, and the player pool is a lot stronger.
Same with 3 draw 2-7 which is DEFINITELY one of my best games, and
there aren't 10 players in the world that play the game better.... including the
big game players. PERIOD. But yet once again winning at 15-30 at "stars"
proves to be difficult.
You are filled with yourself, Tony. At 'Stars, the games online are
faster, the deals are truer, and the player pool is a lot stronger.
I'm saving allot of hand histories, and I hope to expound at some point
on some of the things I see, ESPECIALLY in the low limit pot limit
Omaha, with UNFOLDABLE hands vs. all-in players, and the miracle
cards that bail them out.
That's always the way. A player with a better hand is going to be
run down by someone all-in. It's so annoying that it seems to be
happening even more frequently than it actually does.
I just want to figure out things so I can make more money online
obviously ;)
Looking for hidden sequences of scripted wins and losses at 'Stars
is a sign of advanced paranoia.
Actually, I don't even care if I play another hand of poker
online, or in real life for that matter. I just like to play my best when I
do.... these days ;) and I want my results to reflect my effort and skill
level. Maybe that's it, I'm just playing to high for my skill level online
? ;)
Probably...... Oh well.... just blabbing..... nice answer by the way. Good luck.
Your sarcasm falls flat. Online is different than B&M in many ways. You
are unable to adjust your game and are desperate to cast blame on
someone or something rather than face reality.
Charlie Foxtrot
2007-05-07 06:37:05 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 06 May 2007 12:07:15 GMT, "N. Silver"
Post by N. Silver
Your sarcasm falls flat. Online is different than B&M in many ways. You
are unable to adjust your game and are desperate to cast blame on
someone or something rather than face reality.
Ah, my favorite of the "it's not rigged, it just can't be" crowd...
Online poker isn't rigged, it's just different from B&M in so many
ways.

I guess they come from the same cut of cloth as the helmet wearing
kids who cry, "Mama say I'm not stupid, I'm special!"

Foxtrot
Bill Ricardi
2007-05-07 10:22:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charlie Foxtrot
I guess they come from the same cut of cloth as the helmet wearing
kids who cry, "Mama say I'm not stupid, I'm special!"
I think it's actually the ones who cry, "I'm winning money, I'm better
than you!"
Bill Ricardi
2007-05-06 12:45:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Popejoy
I was just curious for those that are big supporters of online poker. Where
do they go? I mean these are just a couple examples, but there are many. "The
Count" or Spirit Rock" and their are others but I don't follow along enough. If
it's so easy for them to win "millions" online, why don't they play everyday?
...

They do. Or as many days as they want to. They use different names on
different sites.

Spirit rock's real name is Prahlad Friedman, and he won a bracelet in
2003, took 2nd at Harrah's Rincon circuit event in 2005, came in 20th
at last years WSOP main event (final of 3 cashes in NLHE events in the
2006 WSOP). According to people who track such things: "On Full Tilt
Poker he plays under his nickname "Spirit Rock." He can also be found
playing on Ultimate Bet under the names "Mahatma", "im sleeping", and
"Aplusgame247" or on the Prima network under the name "Zweig""

I don't really track these guys, but if you have their real names, you
can probably find them. think you just have to know where to look.
Tony Popejoy
2007-05-06 18:16:34 UTC
Permalink
  I know who 'Prahlad is personally.... the guy that ALMOST beat the shit out of
Jeffery Lisansdro :) , or something like that :) , and it wasn't about him
specifically. I never said that some players that were really good online, had
better than average offline results................. and I'm so "full of myself"
that N.Silver doesn't even deserve a response. Thanks for clarifying things for
me "N". You brought out so many points that I hadn't thought of, your answers
have made me finally see the light. As is your point.
    Let me guess: You are a "winning" little limit player online, and you have
found ALL the answers to simplify my questions. Thank you, I'm going to spend
time watching you and see if I can't improve my game. My friend as well. He is
real impressed. I mean our results don't mean anything we are just "full of
ourselves". The fact that he made a final table at the wsop 6 years in a row was
a complete coincidence, and my results have been scrutinized already. I can't
wait for your book "N". How to dominate the low levels of online poker, and why
egotistical dipshits... like Tony Popejoy" who win at much higher levels in real
life...... are TOO FUCKING STUPID to make the little adjustments online, that
would allow them the success that I have "
It can be the longest title in the history of published books. Perhaps you can
pick up a copy of mine as well, give it to some others here too look at.......
"I don't care what you think about me, kiss my pompous ass"  Sometimes, you are
truly wasting your breath when you speak.... and no I'm not just learning that,
I'm just thinking out loud. Carry on.

                                                                                
                Tony Popejoy
Post by Bill Ricardi
Post by Tony Popejoy
I was just curious for those that are big supporters of online poker. Where
do they go? I mean these are just a couple examples, but there are many. "The
Count" or Spirit Rock" and their are others but I don't follow along enough. If
it's so easy for them to win "millions" online, why don't they play everyday?
....
They do. Or as many days as they want to. They use different names on
different sites.
Spirit rock's real name is Prahlad Friedman, and he won a bracelet in
2003, took 2nd at Harrah's Rincon circuit event in 2005, came in 20th
at last years WSOP main event (final of 3 cashes in NLHE events in the
2006 WSOP). According to people who track such things: "On Full Tilt
Poker he plays under his nickname "Spirit Rock." He can also be found
playing on Ultimate Bet under the names "Mahatma", "im sleeping", and
"Aplusgame247" or on the Prima network under the name "Zweig""
I don't really track these guys, but if you have their real names, you
can probably find them. think you just have to know where to look.
_______________________________________________________________
The Largest Online Poker Community - http://www.recpoker.com
Bill Ricardi
2007-05-06 23:51:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Popejoy
I know who 'Prahlad is personally.... the guy that ALMOST beat the shit out of
Jeffery Lisansdro :) , or something like that :) , and it wasn't about him
specifically.
Well you mentioned him by name, so I thought I'd poke around. I'd need
more specifics, with names that aren't direct gambling terms
preferably, to comment on anyone else.
R***@aol.com
2007-05-07 20:03:30 UTC
Permalink
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